("Quid coniuratio est?")
BOSNIA: HOW THE STATE DEPARTMENT AND MEDIA HAVE FAILED AND MISLED THE AMERICAN PEOPLE
Special thanks to my "Chicago connection" for sending a videotape of a public access program, "Broadsides", which was taped on June 6, 1995. Host is Mr. Sherman Skolnick of the Citizens' Committee to Clean Up the Courts; co-host is Mr. Robert E. Cleveland, an attorney and associate of Mr. Skolnick. Guests are James Nagle, an attorney with the law firm of Querry & Harrow, Andrew B. Spiegel, also an attorney, and Mike Pavlovic, a Serbian-American.
Pardon spelling errors. If you know the correct spellings, please let me know.
Contact info: Andrew B. Spiegel, PO Box 396, Wheaton, IL 60187
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[...continued...]
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
So what are you saying? You're saying there's a symbolism: they
want the world to pay attention to what's happening. They says,
"Hey! We're not gonna harm these people but we're grabbing these
people to make a point that our viewpoint is not being heard
for some reason!" So now everybody says, "Why did you grab these
people? They've got the 'U.N. thing?'" Is that it?
ANDREW SPIEGEL:
And the news media cannot afford -- going back to my wrestling
analogy -- they can't afford to portray the "bad guys" as the
"good guys"; they have to stay the "bad guys" to keep this
story...
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
So your view, as would-be peacemakers, is that there are bad guys
and good guys in that area, right?
ANDREW SPIEGEL:
There are bad guys. There are good guys. And there are great
guys.
JAMES NAGLE:
To answer the question that you keep asking: "Why won't the
United States sit down and talk with Karadzic?" Their position at
this point [June 1995] is, they don't recognize him. Before Nixon
went to China, we didn't recognize China. Did that mean that
there were not a billion Chinese living over there?
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
This is not clear to a lot of Americans. Who does our State
Department, our government, recognize?
JAMES NAGLE:
They have been dealing with, at this point, Milosovich, who is
the leader of Yugoslavia, the former head of the Yugoslav
Communist Party. And he is the one that the U.S. recognizes.
And that's where our "declaration of independence" comes in...
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
Which one of them is accused of being a war criminal?
ANDREW SPIEGEL:
Well, ironically enough, Milosovich was accused as a war criminal
until they started negotiating with him! They started
negotiating with him and suddenly he's not a war criminal, it's
just Karadzic and Miladich(sp?).
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
So in other words, the one you went to negotiate with to try to
make a peace understanding, constitution and all that, is not
recognized. And he's not recognized, why? Because the State
Department doesn't take him seriously?
ANDREW SPIEGEL:
Well, because for one thing, as far as I'm concerned, from an
international law basis, they have not declared themselves as an
independent country. If they are of the constituent republic of
Yugoslavia, then the person to talk to is Milosovich.
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
Under the Logan Act, no American citizen, private citizen, is
supposed to negotiate foreign policy. So you went over there,
negotiating foreign policy.
ANDREW SPIEGEL:
Not only were we not negotiating foreign policy, but I think
it's clear even to the casual observer of the situation that
there is very little foreign policy of the United States.
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
[laughs] There's no foreign policy, therefore they couldn't
violate the Logan Act because there isn't any foreign policy one
way or the other! Right? Is that fair?
ANDREW SPIEGEL:
I think so.
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
So where do you think the thing is going? I mean, what is the
hopeful sign? We've seen all the bloodshed, plenty of it, on the
television: bodies, buildings bombed. What is the hopeful sign?
ANDREW SPIEGEL:
Well, the hopeful sign is that the Republic of Srpska and
Republic of Croina will adopt the "declaration of independence",
adopt the "constitution", and create a democratic form of
constitutional government where people can live freely regardless
of race, religion or creed. And if they do that then, hopefully,
it will bring peace to that troubled area of the world.
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
Well the point of the matter is that that area (you mentioned
about democracy and all that): Have they ever had democracy
there?
ANDREW SPIEGEL:
They have a democratic form of government in the Republic of
Srpska now.
And before we run out of time, let me tell you that we have tapes of the Croatian genocide in Bukovar(sp?) and the Croatian genocide perpetrated against the Serbs from 1941 to 1990. And the post office box has been flashed from time to time on the screen. If people are interested in obtaining those tapes, they should write there for further information. [Andrew B. Spiegel, PO Box 396, Wheaton, IL 60187]
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
You're on an educational mission, all three of you.
ANDREW SPIEGEL:
Right.
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
And all three of you would go back, to try again, even though
you've been rebuffed by the mainstream media...
ANDREW SPIEGEL:
I think that another point that should be made is that the
Bosnians have hired a public relations firm to handle their side
of the story. And they're just putting out all this information
that is pro-Bosnian -- which is one of the reasons why the news
media is so slanted.
ROBERT CLEVELAND:
Let me ask you this: When you went over there and were doing
these things pro bono, so to speak, for [their] government and
for [their] president, weren't you on their local TV and in their
local paper, their media? Didn't they play that up over there?
JAMES NAGLE:
We were on their local TV; we were on their local radio -- both
in the Republic of Srpska and in Yugoslavia.
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
So you were played up as heroes there. And you should have been
played up as peacemakers in the United States.
ANDREW SPIEGEL:
Correct. When we left, I thought that we would get all kinds of
news media coverage.
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
So if the three of you wanted to smuggle into the country and
sell them some exotic weapons, you might have been better off;
you would have been accepted by the United States if you were
really three arms merchants.
ANDREW SPIEGEL:
The exotic piece of equipment that we tried to bring into the
Republic of Srpska was a popcorn maker, which...
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
That they wouldn't allow into the country!?
ANDREW SPIEGEL:
...which the Hungarian border guards said was "a violation of
U.N. sanctions."
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
By what stretch of the imagination were they gonna turn it into a
weapon?
ANDREW SPIEGEL:
Well, when we tried to convince them that this was humanitarian
relief, and not something that was covered by U.N. sanctions, we
were talking about Bill Clinton. And it turns out, we learned
later, we should have been talking about "Ben Franklin" [$100
bills] and how many of them we'd have to give them to let us
bring it through.
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
Let's ask our Serbian-American representative here, what do you
think? Is there peace possible in the area? Or are they going to
go on killing each other for another thousand years?
MIKE PAVLOVIC:
If we want to solve the problem, we can solve the problem.
Twenty-four hours. I know. I am sure. But America should see
all sides. They recognize only two sides and show on
television two sides. On the Serbian side, they never show
anything good -- only bad. Now, they must sit around the table
and work together, and negotiate. And I know that we can solve
the problem. We stop killing and negotiate. If we must
negotiate for ten years, we should negotiate for ten years. And
then, make economical war to be able... see how can economically
go forward. And then we build again, together.
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
I want to thank our three illustrious peacemakers. I hope you go
back there and make peace. I appreciate you came on our program.
And I thank everybody for watching "Broadsides". And call up your
local newsfakers and ask them why these three have not been
played up as heroes in their own country, the United States.
I encourage distribution of "Conspiracy Nation."
See also: http://www.europa.com/~johnlf/cn.html
See also: ftp ftp.shout.net pub/users/bigred