("Quid coniuratio est?")
Accused Oklahoma City bomber Timothy McVeigh's lawyer, Stephen Jones, appeared briefly on CBS This Morning on October 16, 1995 where he was interviewed by Harry Smith.
HARRY SMITH:
He stands accused of a hideous crime. But the case against
Timothy McVeigh for allegedly bombing the Oklahoma City federal
building may be in real trouble long before the trial can
begin. A member of that grand jury, of that indictment, has given
interviews to a magazine and a newspaper, the Daily Oklahoman.
And some of what that grand juror has to say could put
prosecutors in a serious bind.
McVeigh's attorney, Stephen Jones, has asked that the indictment be dismissed. And he joins us this morning from Enid, Oklahoma. Good morning, Mr. Jones.
STEPHEN JONES:
Good morning, Harry.
HARRY SMITH:
You have filed a motion in court, on Friday, asking what?
STEPHEN JONES:
I ask the court to dismiss the indictment against Mr. McVeigh or,
the alternative, to allow us to interview grand jurors and to
have an evidentiary hearing on the allegations we have received.
HARRY SMITH:
Because a grand juror... Now do we know, for a fact, this juror
has spoken and, in fact, the person who has done these
interviewers... interviews... was a grand juror?
STEPHEN JONES:
I listened to about six to eight hours of tapes of the interview.
And I'm satisfied, by the contents of the tapes, that it is in
fact at least one grand juror. Yes.
HARRY SMITH:
And what kinds of things did this person say that you think would
be grounds for dismissal?
STEPHEN JONES:
I think two things: First, the grand juror makes some rather
dramatic allegations against the government and the prosecutors
and the grand jury, that they attempted to control the direction
of the grand jury and to focus only on my client and Terry
Nichols, and took away their independence. Secondly, but less so,
I'm disturbed that during the sessions of the grand jury (and
this grand juror still on the grand jury), apparently on numerous
occasions he talked with members of the press -- which is
strictly prohibited by Rule Six of the Federal Rules of Criminal
Procedure.
HARRY SMITH:
But prosecutors so often try to steer a grand jury in the
direction they're... that... Why would that, this be any
different than any other case?
STEPHEN JONES:
Well, for several reasons: First, according to this grand juror,
they could not ask questions unless they were first screened by
the prosecutors -- which is a serious breach of grand jury
independence. A number of the grand jurors resented bringing in
twelve-year-old Josh and Tim McVeigh's sister, said this was
unfair and not necessary to secure evidence. And then, the grand
jurors wanted to go after other witnesses, such as the elusive
John Doe #2, and the prosecutors would not bring in the artist
that drew the composite and other witnesses -- but yet would
saddle the grand jury with people like Josh and Jennifer, whose
knowledge was very limited. Apparently at least four grand jurors
were very aggravated by this, shall we say, "lock" on their
independence.
HARRY SMITH:
And this points to, your line, your theory that there really is a
larger conspiracy at hand.
STEPHEN JONES:
Well there's either a larger conspiracy or a different
conspiracy. But what is troubling here is that the prosecutors,
in effect, according to this grand juror's allegation, took away
from the grand jury their duty to go after the full story, not
just concentrating on the two people that had already been
arrested.
HARRY SMITH:
Have you had a chance to look at the, Lana Padilla's(sp?) book?
STEPHEN JONES:
I have looked at it.
HARRY SMITH:
And what do you think about that? Because she would also suggest
that there may be more goin' on here.
STEPHEN JONES:
Well, I think it's quite clear that she's trying to make money
off of this tragedy. She and my client have never even met. So
anything that she says about Tim McVeigh is idle speculation,
hearsay.
HARRY SMITH:
Stephen Jones, from Enid, Oklahoma this morning. Thank you very
much for your time.
STEPHEN JONES:
Thank you, Harry.
I encourage distribution of "Conspiracy Nation."