("Quid coniuratio est?")
INTERVIEW WITH DEBRA VON TRAPP -- JULY 5, 1995 I spoke by phone with Debra von Trapp on July 5, 1995. What follows is an abbreviated transcript of that interview.
By way of introduction, Debra von Trapp was featured on a recent segment of the NBC Dateline "News" program. Said segment dealt with alternative, non-official views as to who was behind the tragic Oklahoma City bombing. Ms. von Trapp claims to have inside knowledge as to who was actually behind the bombing and why it was done.
Note that, as always, I neither necessarily agree nor disagree with either all or parts of the following.
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DEBRA VON TRAPP [continues]:
Additionally, again: the unabomber is known for having an
absolute hatred of technology or anyone related to it. Yet
allegedly, he has been contacting Bob Guccione. So Guccione went
on-camera, publicly, for the news media, the day of this
announcement and said he has been having extensive conversations
with the unabomber. First we would have to believe that he
[unabomber] has had no contact with law enforcement, and if he
had, that law enforcement had certainly lost its ability to trace
phone calls or apprehend criminals. Or how could he have had
extensive contact with this guy without them having lead one
about who he is or where he is? Secondly, and more notably, Bob
Guccione is the leading publisher of scientific, technology
publications in the Soviet Union, and is known to, out of pocket,
at his own personal expense, spend millions of dollars to advance
technology and research in the United States. One would,
therefore, more easily conclude that it would be reasonable that
the unabomber would have made Guccione a target, not a "comrade",
not a confidante. And it just smacks of an FBI conspiracy.
CONSPIRACY NATION:
Goin' back to this Columbus Day/Yom Kippur holiday scenario,
you... in other words, people would not be payin' attention to
things, they would be enjoyin' the holiday, and that would be the
time the FBI or whoever would pull something?
DEBRA VON TRAPP:
Just like the 4th of July! They were under way too much pressure
to try to explain why, even though they've had McVeigh in custody
since week one, they have yet to not only indict him but they've
asked to wait 'til August to do so. They have no other suspects.
They have no accounting as to how he allegedly conducted this or
created his access into the Murrah Building; or how that building
came down, with the story they're trying to advance regarding a
"fertilizer bomb" in a truck. They're doing such a poor job of it
and they have no way out of it. But they had to advance another
scare. What better time to do it than the 4th of July, when lots
of families are travelling across this country. And then they
even affected our mail system by doing this.
CONSPIRACY NATION:
Yeah, okay. And I've heard also that, supposedly, if it was a
"fertilizer bomb" then, there's a courthouse building that's
directly across from the Murrah Building. And you've got a
situation where, supposedly, you've got a truck parked in-between
the two buildings. And it [bomb] goes off, but only one building
gets damaged. And the other building, that is equally proximate,
just has a few windows broken.
DEBRA VON TRAPP:
Yeah! It's sort of remarkable when you consider that the ATF
comes out with this story that the reason that some of their
agents weren't in the building is because they were across the
street, in the courthouse! [laughs]
CONSPIRACY NATION:
[laughs]
DEBRA VON TRAPP:
They knew where to go!
CONSPIRACY NATION:
Yeah, yeah. 'Cuz you would think that... I mean, some people I
know will say, "Oh. Well haven't you ever heard of a 'directional
bomb'?", or something.
DEBRA VON TRAPP:
A "fertilizer bomb" is not a directional bomb.
CONSPIRACY NATION:
Yeah! That's just it. So, you know, the question -- and I had
heard somebody raise this question, and I just figured I'd put it
to you, 'cuz you might know something about it, is: if there's a
Ryder truck parked between the two buildings, then why does only
one building get damaged so much, and the other one just has a
few windows broken?
DEBRA VON TRAPP:
Because there was no Ryder truck parked with a "fertilizer bomb"
in front of the building, and there were, in fact, three
explosive devices inside the Murrah Building, set, specifically,
in a pattern which guaranteed that the Secret Service personnel
would be terminated when that explosive device, when these
explosive devices were set.
CONSPIRACY NATION:
Okay. You know, somethin' else I heard too is that, allegedly,
some federal agents had surrounded your house or something like
that?
DEBRA VON TRAPP:
That's true. Last Friday, at 1:40 pm, my house was surrounded by,
uh within my view at the time I first looked, 4 cars, 7 agents,
plainclothes, that looked over my back fence into my dining room
window, and stood at the front door, repeatedly knocking and
ringing the bell -- and then listening. Alternating between
beating on the door and then listening, with their ear against
the door, to see if they could hear anything.
CONSPIRACY NATION:
Do you have any idea who they were?
DEBRA VON TRAPP:
No. My take on this... because, of course, I've worked with so
many of these "teams", they physically have certain
characteristics, across-the-board. It is my judgement that I was
looking at FBI.
CONSPIRACY NATION:
Okay, and they were tryin' to get you to answer the door, but you
just figured it'd be best not to answer the door.
DEBRA VON TRAPP:
I stayed inside. In fact, two other people were inside with me at
the time. And my position was that I had committed no crime, had
no reason to be taken into custody.
It's a typical pattern in federal law enforcement, if you want to harass someone, you take them into custody for questioning before a long weekend, with the intent that they not be allowed to communicate with anyone or obtain any counsel, usually, until the day after. You know, when the court is again in session. So potentially, they could've kept me until today [Wednesday, 7/5/95], especially if they, in fact, created some false allegation in order to put me in a position where I could not have been arraigned until this morning.
I, in fact, am now represented by a very high-level, or I should say, high-profile, federal criminal defense attorney who was previously a federal prosecutor, so that in the event that any federal agency should attempt to harass me or create a false allegation against me, that this individual will immediately be there to represent me.
CONSPIRACY NATION:
Okay, let me address something else: there's (and the fireworks
may fly on this, but I'll address it anyway)... You're familiar
with somebody named Linda Thompson, I assume.
DEBRA VON TRAPP:
Yes, I'm aware of her. I have seen her in [unclear] an interview
on television and have had one extended and two extremely brief
conversations with her.
CONSPIRACY NATION:
And what was your impression of her?
DEBRA VON TRAPP:
I believe that Linda is someone who is competent as an attorney,
has a political agenda that is very different from mine and is
very drawn towards publicity and the media. And, in fact, creates
scenarios in which she attracts their attention. And that seems
to be the purpose of the office that she runs: to obtain and
attract media attention. We are in very different businesses and
very different fields, and conduct ourselves (to the best of my
knowledge, personally) professionally in an extremely different
manner: Linda's extremely public, I'm extremely private; Linda's
extremely political and liberal, I'm extremely non-political and
conservative.
So, we are just two extremely different people.
CONSPIRACY NATION:
Anything else goin' on, that you want to say?
DEBRA VON TRAPP:
We are dealing with a very serious issue here. It involves
innocent victims, citizens of the United States that are fellow
Americans, that have been victims of federal agents acting
outside the law.
I really am alarmed at the unabomber "fairy tale" that's been advanced by the FBI. I think everyone should not only look carefully at it, but understand that, over 17 years, a lot of media coverage has taken place regarding this man: his profile, and FBI information about him. (That can be obtained from a number of sources, including databases at the library.) But I encourage everyone to look at that, and compare that to the information [now] being advanced. And take a look at the communication pattern that seems to be consistent with FBI allegations -- and that is, between the Washington Post, the New York Times, Bob Guccione and the FBI. And, just watch that. Because I made a prediction, and I've made two public statements so far. And one was that a federal building would be taken down, and it happened the next day. Another was that the FBI would advance a wild, bomb scare story to divert the public attention: it happened the next day. The prediction I've made now, publicly and on talk radio, has been that the unabomber did not do this! And, in fact, he will be so angered at being given any responsibility for any of what has taken place over the holiday, that he will specifically, in his usual style, and quietly, target one or more of the participants in this wild story, and will, in fact, target them, deliver a device to them, and, once accomplished, he will follow up in his usual pattern and take credit for it to show the public who he is and that he, in fact, was not responsible for that [L.A. airport bomb scare].
I encourage distribution of "Conspiracy Nation."
Coming to you from Illinois -- "The Land of Skolnick"