Conspiracy Nation -- Vol. 5 Num. 50

("Quid coniuratio est?")

INTERVIEW WITH DEBRA VON TRAPP -- JULY 5, 1995 I spoke by phone with Debra von Trapp on July 5, 1995. What follows is an abbreviated transcript of that interview.

By way of introduction, Debra von Trapp was featured on a recent segment of the NBC Dateline "News" program. Said segment dealt with alternative, non-official views as to who was behind the tragic Oklahoma City bombing. Ms. von Trapp claims to have inside knowledge as to who was actually behind the bombing and why it was done.

Note that, as always, I neither necessarily agree nor disagree with either all or parts of the following.

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Okay. You talked with Gary Null, on the phone?

Right. Gary Null called me yesterday. And he's a person who, of course, has written a number of books and articles, and writes for Bob Guccione [publisher of Penthouse] as well. And [he] had re-contacted me because we had, originally, a conversation about the Oklahoma City bombing.

Then he [Gary Null] told me that he had just completed a trip to Oklahoma City, and had interviewed a number of people. [He] was calling to follow up with me on some of my information, [and] had been following the Internet.

And he specifically wanted to tell me that he, independently, had confirmed that there were three devices in the building. And of course, I've been on-record since April 19th, that, in fact, there were three bombs inside the Murrah Building. And he is thoroughly satisfied, as [a result of] his own, separate investigation, that that, in fact, is true.

And I believe that I am the only person, worldwide, that has made that statement [as to three devices], and has been publicly, on-record, with that statement, since the day of the bombing.

Okay. And do you think it's likely that he'll, possibly, publish in Guccione's magazine fairly soon? Or do you have any idea on that?

No. Basically, Gary is known for sitting back (according to his own statement) and letting the smoke clear from everyone else's conjecture and all the false leads that have gone out.

He had pursued virtually every story that was advanced by the FBI, including the Oklahoma lead, Nichol's farm, uh Tennessee, I believe, was one of the locations, Findley(?), Arizona. And I had admonished everyone to ignore the Arizona lead entirely. And he concurred with me, upon his return, that, in fact, I was correct. That there was nothing to the Nichol's farm story, nothing absolutely to the Arizona story. Of course, no California connection, as was originally alleged. In fact, his focus is back on Oklahoma City itself.

And he also told me that he had absolute confirmation regarding my statement as to the White House being "bugged" [spied upon]. And that operation having been, I guess... He didn't use the word "funded" -- but having been associated with the Japanese government. (Which, of course, my statement all along has been that the operation was funded by the Embassy of Japan and Matsushita, through MCA Universal.)

So there's at least one person out there who is a well-respected journalist and researcher -- especially in terms of media coverage of notorious events such as JFK's assassination, and now this -- that has taken apart everyone else's leads and finally concurred with a good portion of my information.

I imagine you've heard about this latest, couple of gas, or attempted gas attacks, in Japan. Do you see any connection? Is that something that's still ongoing, with the Oklahoma bombing, and revenge and retaliation?

I haven't had any contact with anyone in Washington, over a long, holiday weekend. I saw both of the CNN reports on two separate attacks, yesterday. Both were aborted by having been discovered. They described them as chemical weapons, inside plastic baggies. And each were described (at least on the reports that I saw) to have been discovered by janitorial crews.

So I haven't yet seen what the allegation is as far as the mixture: if they're describing sarin [gas] or some other type of device. They could certainly be "copycat" devices. However I couldn't overlook the fact that it would have been the 4th of July in Japan. And if it were a follow-up harassment, or warning to the Japanese -- to again have some background "infighting", if you will, between these two governments -- that would be an appropriate day, perhaps, in many government officials' minds to have launched a supplemental attack.

You know what else I've noticed about that? Supposedly, they've rounded up these cult members and taken away their gas and everything...

That's right!

So they're mostly in jail now, as far as I know. So how could they be mounting an attack from jail? That doesn't necessarily prove anything, but it is a point of view that occurred to me.

Yes. In fact, we're talking about a much smaller country, much more regulated disbursement of chemicals, much more visible in their activity, if they had attempted to assemble the amount of chemicals needed to create that attack. One would then have to conjecture that the police hadn't done their job and maybe they had withheld some cache of chemicals or weaponry.

And, in fact, an actual analysis of the true story behind the types of chemicals that were seized, and the uses of those chemicals, originally, in the ongoing work that that cult was doing -- if you look at what they're actually related to, which is high technology, IBM-compatible computers and the sales of those, within Japan (which, of course, is scorned by the government because they're on a different computing standard than the U.S. is: they have the NEC standard, which is not compatible, and was never intended to be, with the IBM standard in the U.S.) -- no wonder the Japanese government saw it as such an opportunity to go after them, both to eradicate a cult structure but, additionally, to eradicate a competitive operation to the NEC type operation in Japan, the well-established computing industry with a non-compatible standard.

Yeah, okay.

Did you happen to see the New York Times this morning?


Okay, they had a fairly lengthy article on Tim McVeigh. And it's kind of the usual, smear-type thing. You know, where they connect him with this book, The Turner Diaries and... I may try to pick the story apart. {1}. It's a long story, you know? It's like 2 or 3 pages long. But I just mention it in passing.

Well note that the Washington Post came out with an exclusive -- I believe it was 4 to 5 pages long -- story of McVeigh and Nichols, on their Sunday edition. And now, the New York Times follows up with that. Note, additionally, the pattern of the contact in terms of my prediction, a week ago, about the FBI needing to advance another bomb scare story, another false lead, in order to divert U.S. attention from the Oklahoma debacle of all the falsely advanced stories about both McVeigh and then John Does 1 thru 4.

The very next day, after I was on a major talk show, radio talk show, discussing the fact that the FBI would do this, the very next day, at 7:30, the alleged "unabomber story" broke. And oddly enough, the unabomber was supposed to have had a pattern of contact completely out of character with everything he's been known for for 17-plus years -- which is, specify a target related to academia or technology. He has never pre-warned his victims, only bragged about it in subsequent follow-ups. And, in fact, something that is the most notable, out of all of this alleged contact, is that not only has he gone completely outside of his pattern, but he has given a condition that is 90 days out. Now if we look at two central situations here, one being that he's completely outside his known pattern, and secondly, that he not only pre-warned (instead of discussed afterwards), but has now even extended it to a 90-day warning. And if you take the position that the FBI and Justice Department are still attempting to advance the terrorism bill and is still lying to the American public, both about Oklahoma and the unabomber story, and you take a stand back and look at the calendar, you will see that 90 days from now is both the beginning of Yom Kippur and another federal holiday, Columbus Day {2}, which would be prime opportunity for the FBI to advance another wild story, another wild bomb scare.

[ be continued...]

---------------------------<< Notes >>--------------------------- {1} In case I don't have time to "pick apart" the July 5, 1995 New York Times story on McVeigh ("Bomb Suspect Felt at Home Riding the Gun-Show Circuit" by John Kifner), here, at least, is what is apparently being floated as the answer to the question, "Gee. Why would McVeigh, after supposedly bombing the Murrah Building, then go speeding down the highway in a car with no license plates and carrying a loaded gun in a shoulder holster?"

Answer? Why the answer is that McVeigh always drove a speeding automobile down the highway and carrying a loaded gun in a shoulder holster! That was McVeigh's normal way of driving a car! From page A11:

"He drove like a wild man," the gun collector said. "He never drove under the speed limit; he drove over it. And he always carried that big pistol."

And just exactly who is this "gun collector" who is claiming this? Why, he's an anonymous gun collector!

Look for a future article claiming that it is a "known fact" that McVeigh normally drove over the speed limit while carrying a loaded pistol. Then look for the above-mentioned New York Times article to be cited as the source for this claim.

{2} 90 days from "now" is also the autumnal equinox which may have significance if considering a possible satanic link.

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Brian Francis Redman "The Big C"

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