("Quid coniuratio est?")
PAULA ZAHN INTERVIEWS STEPHEN JONES
Paula Zahn interviewed Stephen Jones, attorney for accused
Oklahoma City bombing suspect Timothy McVeigh, on CBS This
Morning, June 26, 1995. The following is my transcription of the
interview.
PAULA ZAHN:
Timothy McVeigh has spoken for the first time about the charges
against him in the Oklahoma City bombing. Among other things, he
told Newsweek magazine he will not plead guilty, and that the
first he heard of the bombing was when he was arrested on a
traffic charge.
Also, we are seeing a new image of McVeigh. His defense team has provided a new videotape of a relaxed McVeigh, chatting with his attorneys.
Stephen Jones is one of his attorneys. He joins us this morning from Enid, Oklahoma.
Thank you very much for being with us this morning.
STEPHEN JONES:
Thank you, Paula.
PAULA ZAHN:
Let's talk about this interview with Newsweek for the moment.
When Timothy McVeigh was asked if he bombed the Murrah Federal
Building, this is what he had to say (he did not flatly deny
it): "The only way we can answer that is, we are going to plead
'not guilty.'"
If your client didn't do it, why didn't he say so in this interview?
STEPHEN JONES:
Because under the local rules of the western judicial district
here in Oklahoma, a defendant and his lawyer have certain limits
as to what they can say once the case is filed in court. He can
say how he will plead, and in this particular case he will plead
"not guilty". To go beyond that is to risk violation of the
local rules and a citation for contempt. And he simply cannot
do that, under the circumstances.
PAULA ZAHN:
As you know, a number of legal analysts out there are questioning
why you allowed your client to do this interview in the first
place. What was your motivation?
STEPHEN JONES:
Well, the client wanted to do it. Dave Hackworth(sp?) wrote
him, and said he'd like to interview him, soldier-to-soldier.
Colonel Hackworth's reputation is well-known among enlisted men
and NCOs [Non-Commissioned Officers], and my client said, "I want
to talk to the man."
So we arranged for the interview on that basis, and we laid down certain ground rules that were acceptable to Newsweek, and we went forward.
PAULA ZAHN:
Let's move on to another question that was asked of him. It was
reported that, when he was arrested, he only gave his name, rank,
a serial number -- and in this Newsweek interview he said, "I
never called myself a 'prisoner of war.'" He also denied being a
member of the Michigan Militia, and said that he never attended
their meetings.
Let's go back to the "prisoner of war" comments: are there any transcripts, that you have seen, that document that in any way at all?
STEPHEN JONES:
No, I've not seen any transcripts. Of course, the trooper who
arrested him testified at the preliminary hearing. And I think
that it's beyond question that he and Mr. McVeigh had a normal
conversation after he was arrested and he was taken down to the
courthouse in Perry. Mr. McVeigh made two court appearances and
answered the questions of the judge. So the idea that he said
nothing but "name, rank, and serial number" is disputed by
probably 20 or 25 people who witnessed some, if not all, of these
proceedings.
PAULA ZAHN:
As you know, one thing that your client said that is being
disputed is that he never participated in Michigan Militia
members [sic]. There have been a number of members who have come
forward that said that they, in fact, saw Timothy McVeigh at
one of their meetings; in fact, he was interested in, in the
potential bombing of another target. What do you make of those
reports and those comments?
STEPHEN JONES:
Well I understand those reports... Mr. McVeigh has said that he
was not a member of the Michigan Militia and he did not attend
any of their meetings. Now there are apparently a large number of
militia members in Michigan: I hear numbers as high as 15,000.
It's certainly possible that he, and any number of other
citizens, may have been at places where there were members of the
Michigan Militia. But until proven contrary, we'll have to take
his word. And even if he did attend the meetings, there's no
indication whatsoever that there's any relationship between the
Michigan Militia and what happened in Oklahoma City -- none
whatsoever.
PAULA ZAHN:
In closing this morning, in this interview, Mr. McVeigh admitted
that he is concerned about the death penalty. Can you see
yourself ever accepting any kind of government bargain, that
would escape the death penalty for your client?
STEPHEN JONES:
Well I don't want to rule out anything, but the government has
made no overture to my client nor have I made any overture to
the government. At the present time, the matter will go to trial.
PAULA ZAHN:
Stephen Jones.
Thank you for your time this morning.
STEPHEN JONES:
Thank you, Paula.
PAULA ZAHN:
I appreciate your joining us.
I encourage distribution of "Conspiracy Nation."
Coming to you from Illinois -- "The Land of Skolnick"