("Quid coniuratio est?")
INTERVIEW WITH SHERMAN SKOLNICK -- MAY 17, 1995
On May 17, 1995, I interviewed, by telephone, Mr. Sherman Skolnick of the Citizens' Committee to Clean-up the Courts [CCCC]. The following is my summary of that interview.
I neither necessarily agree nor disagree with either all or portions of the following. I invite any persons directly involved to send any rebuttals to bigxc@prairienet.org -- I am willing to distribute said rebuttals, provided they are of reasonable length.
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[...continued...]
SHERMAN SKOLNICK [continues]:
But the point is, as I said earlier, the thing that is bothering
the Establishment, the ultra rich, the most is this monster that
they let out of the bottle: Internet. Their idea was to globalize
communications with Internet. But this genie, this monster, is
out of the bottle -- and now they don't know how to put it
back! [laughs]
Because there are some clever people out there says, "Hey! Forget about the news fakers in New York. Notice what this one says, and notice what that one says." I mean like, in my position: until the last 5 years, when they saw me on television, people would run into me downtown and says, "Skolnick, I thought you were either dead or retired. I haven't seen you."
With many of those people downtown, you're in a 17th century technology. If they don't see you once in a while, in the evening, on the television, you're dead or retired or have fled the country. And that's where cable access comes in; that's where Internet comes in: they gotta see your name. And another thing: they gotta see you on the computer screen. If they can't press up nothin' on that machine and make your story come up on the computer screen -- you're dead, you're retired, you left the country. [laughs] They've gotta see you there! That's the latest technology.
CONSPIRACY NATION:
Yeah.
One other thing: you mentioned... Okay, you live at 9800 S. Oglesby. And from what you say, that's a black neighborhood now.
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
I'm not saying that from a negative standpoint. I'm here since
the neighborhood was here. The neighborhood got started in 1948
and '50, and my folks bought the house and here I am! I don't
wish to run to the lily-white suburbs: number one, I don't have
the money, and number two, it's too far from the center of
downtown and the cultural center. The cultural center in Chicago
is not in the northwest suburbs -- that's a desert. The cultural
center is the University of Chicago, which is only a few minutes
from me. And so, if there's something important at the U of C,
and I tell somebody that lives in Mount Prospect [i.e., a
northwest suburb] -- My God! I mean, they gotta travel
considerable time and distance to get to it. Whereas by me, it's
only a few minutes away!
CONSPIRACY NATION:
Yeah. See, my mom grew up on the south side of Chicago, around
79th and Throop st., by St. Sabina's parish down there...
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
Yeah.
CONSPIRACY NATION:
...and I know, somewhat, of the way things usually go: is that,
there would be, the blacks would move into the neighborhood,
tensions would arise, and the whites would leave. And it's just
unusual for somebody to just stay in the neighborhood like that.
What's it like for you? You're probably -- what? -- the only white guy livin' in the neighborhood?
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
Uh, no. There's about two or three others in there. I get along
with everybody! What difference would it make? I mean there's,
some of my own religion would like to take a rope and hang me.
It's...
You know, I point out things that are hard. We're working on a story that, for 3 years now we can't quite get it together the way we like it. And that is, that the federal judges, who are supposed to promote human rights, generally do not allow black and Hispanic lawyers to make a living in the federal courthouse in Chicago. So it's the same as putting up a sign in Alabama 50 years ago, that blacks should drink from this other fountain. So I finally got one black, prominent lawyer to talk to me off-the- record. And so far, he's agreed to go on our show. And he says, "Yeah, you're right, Skolnick! These judges over there discriminate against black lawyers. They... It's as if they put a sign up and says 'Black lawyers not wanted.'" And you know the one they really don't want are blacks that are not Christians, that are Muslims. It's like they got a sign up there, but it's an invisible sign, that's saying "Blacks and Black Muslim lawyers: Do not practice here, because you will not be allowed to make a living. Go practice in the traffic court and the bus accident claims in the state court. Don't come into the federal court."
And I, I've got at least one prominent, black lawyer who says he will go on our show and say that, for all the world to hear.
And that's, that runs contrary to the accepted wisdom that the federal court is the great supporter of human rights. Not in Chicago they're not.
CONSPIRACY NATION:
Yeah.
Did you succeed in getting Debra von Trapp to be on your show at all?
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
She's an interesting character. What has happened as a result of
your serializing the lengthy interview I did with her on tape, is
that all of those that were in with her circle are trying to
either threaten me, or sweet talk me [laughs]. I mean, I don't
know who all these people are that suddenly are calling me up and
they want to talk an hour or two and persuade me that yes, the
Clinton White House was spied on, but no, they didn't do it, it
was this other guy that did it! [laughs]
CONSPIRACY NATION:
[laughs]
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
I mean, I talked already with Robert Goetzman and some of the
others. I had to find him. But some of the others have found
me, and they call me, and they're tryin' to sweet talk me: "Oh
yes, there was spying in the District of Columbia. Oh yes. But
I only know about it; I didn't go along with it." That's what
they tell me! [laughs]
CONSPIRACY NATION:
[laughs]
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
I listen. I consider myself a fair-minded journalist.
But the one benefit the Debra von Trapp story has done is to draw all these strange, "spooky" types out of the woodwork! [laughs]
CONSPIRACY NATION:
[laughs]
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
I think some of 'em are runnin' after you too, a little bit.
CONSPIRACY NATION:
Yeah! I... You know, like I say, I got that e-mail from uh, Wes
Thomas I think his name is. And, you know, I always have a
disclaimer that I put in front of my postings, that I neither
necessarily agree nor disagree. You know, I just...
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
He claims he's not with the CIA, as Debra says. But I tell ya
somethin': there's a lot to support the contrary. He's a top
notcher. He is far too clever. And, in fact, it'd probably be
an insult to say he's with the CIA. I mean, he probably
supervises the CIA!
Wes Thomas is awfully clever. But he's very personable. He called me up the other night and spoke to me for an hour like it was some uncle that I had forgotten about! [laughs]
CONSPIRACY NATION:
[laughs]
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
He was very friendly, this guy. I mean, where did I run into him?
At a luncheon or something? That he calls me up and he's so sweet
and nice and so on.
He says that Goetzman did solicit him to spy on all the foreign embassies in Washington, but that he didn't go along with it. But the plan was, according to Wes Thomas, the plan was that Goetzman was gonna supply used computers, with transponders secretly built into them, and that Wes Thomas was gonna give these away to all the foreign embassies. And that way, the team (the secret team) could then spy on 'em.
But Wes would have me believe that he didn't go along with it. Well, I don't know. All I know is, your serializing the story on Internet, the interview of Debra, has brought all of these -- I don't know what to call 'em! -- secret team disclaiming they're a secret team -- has brought 'em all out into the open, to call and sweet talk me. And a few, of course, have also threatened me! [laughs] I mean, you know...
CONSPIRACY NATION:
How did they threaten you?
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
Well Goetzman says he's gonna get me by, by sending a subpoena
after me! [laughs] You know...
[...to be continued...]
I encourage distribution of "Conspiracy Nation."
Coming to you from Illinois -- "The Land of Skolnick"