("Quid coniuratio est?")
INTERVIEW WITH DEBRA VON TRAPP
By Sherman H. Skolnick
(Transcribed by Brian Francis Redman)
I neither necessarily agree nor disagree with either all or portions of the following. -- CN Editor.
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[...continued...]
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
So in other words, on the one hand the Japanese, Mitsubishi and
others, apparently have been spying on the Clinton
administration... What is the rationale for them spying on the
Clinton White House?
DEBRA VON TRAPP:
Well, at the time that Clinton took office, there was a
tremendous trade war going on. And you'll see that our media was
just full of stories and hostility about the economic pressure
that the Japanese were bringing to bear on the U.S. economy, and
the great imbalance in trade. And we were actually holding talks
with the "multiple Prime Minister" of the week, since four
changed hands in one year over in the Japanese government.
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
In other words, Clinton was like an isolationist President,
wanted to emphasize domestic instead of foreign affairs or
something?
DEBRA VON TRAPP:
No. They didn't know what his card would be. But what they knew
for certain is that the Japanese were taking too much pressure
from even the previous administration. And this real gravy train,
CIA-funded project, under Bush, that this team I was with
conducted -- directly out of the Executive Office of the
President; it was a multi-jurisdictional team that had no other
reporting authority except Bush -- had just a ton of cash to
spend. I mean, these were federal government employees, walking
around in $1200 suits, eating $100 lunches, and never thinking
twice about spending money. And suddenly, Bush lost the election;
they lost their project. They talked about doing a surveillance
project on behalf of the CIA on Clinton. And ultimately, that
didn't pan out. So this team decided -- that we had already been
in the Japanese embassy, doing other things; or they had had some
contact -- and basically decided to go to work for the Japanese
government.
MCA Universal, again, which is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Matsushta(?), which also was the manufacturer of the Shugart [disk] drives for Xerox and...
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
Right. The ones that went to the Eastern Bloc, illegally.
DEBRA VON TRAPP:
So the same entity, the Japanese government, came in. Goetzman
and the team carried MCA Universal business cards, with their
name on them!
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
MCA, according to some published accounts, has a long, criminal-
enterprise past with what Americans would call "the Mafia".
That's been published.
DEBRA VON TRAPP:
Yes.
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
So, in other words, with Matshusta taking them over, it wasn't
that unusual! And now, nine days before the Oklahoma bombing,
another criminal enterprise (at least, some people believe that
about the Bronfmans) took over MCA from Matshusta.
DEBRA VON TRAPP:
Yes.
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
So in other words, it's a criminal enterprise.
Do you believe that the...
DEBRA VON TRAPP:
Ironically, the storage facility, which is Japanese Intelligence-
owned (it's called DataLok), in southern California, 65 miles
below the Universal City, where MCA Universal is, just after
the subway attack and just before the Oklahoma City bombing, MCA
Universal moved all of its corporate records out of its building
and into the DataLok facility in Tucston(?), California. Now the
DataLok facility was the same place that Goetzman and I, and
Stanley and Cofield and everyone else, we shipped all the
equipment that ultimately ended up in the White House and the
Democratic National Committee and the District of Columbia -- the
"bugged" equipment -- it first was shipped from the manufacturers
into DataLok in Tucston, California, and then re-shipped to all
the other destinations.
And so then MCA, in between the gas attack and the bombing, moved all their corporate records into DataLok. And I hope you're sitting down and holding onto your desk: because DataLok currently stores all the secure documents for Hughes Aircraft and some of its divisions that...
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
Really! [laughs]
DEBRA VON TRAPP:
...a year-and-a-half ago for our national security. Our very
contracts, our government's most sensitive contracts with Hughes
Aircraft, are, in fact, sitting in the same storage facility with
MCA Universal's records. And the Japanese government and Japanese
intelligence... And they've got their run of anything they want
to read at any time of day or night.
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
Well, in the Hitachi case, some years ago, what came out was,
Hitachi executives felt justified in spying on IBM because it was
not against Japanese law for a Japanese national to spy on
another country for industrial purposes.
So I guess they... You feel that that's the rationale for what the Japanese have done? Or...
DEBRA VON TRAPP:
Well, I think they benefited greatly by completely compromising
White House communications. Not only did they know everything the
country was doing with everybody else, every other government,
every transaction, every plan they had regarding the trade talks
or sanctions or anything else. They, simply, had great leverage
over Clinton.
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
Do you think that we, in turn -- our American CIA or the National
Security Agency -- do you think we, in turn, have been spying on
them, both here and overseas?
DEBRA VON TRAPP:
I don't think we had that kind of access. I think they had our
government exactly where they wanted them. For the last two
years, the Japanese government has had the upper hand in this
situation entirely.
In fact, MCA is so worried about me knowing all of that information regarding the Executive Office "bugging" project and the storage of DataLok records, and the fact that they have the Hughes Aircraft secure documents in their storage facility, that they actually bought the neighbor out, across the street from my home, and -- literally -- the Japanese government and MCA Universal, one of their directors, is sitting 55 feet from my front door. Sitting out there to intimidate me!
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
From a historical standpoint, that is what espionage people
have done. Although those not familiar with espionage would be
skeptical about the story, I'm not skeptical because I know of
other examples where that very thing is done.
DEBRA VON TRAPP:
I wish someone would just come over, and knock on the door in
front of my house and ask them what they're doing there! The
director walked out of the door one morning, handed me a business
card, and said, "Quit talking to the Justice Department. Call
Robert Goetzman." I mean, I've dealt with this every day
since November of '94 when, after they had kicked that Secret
Service agent back from the White House, back to Oklahoma City,
and Paul Coffey had instructed his staff not to talk to me
anymore, I have been sitting here, with the Japanese government
and MCA sitting across the street from me, every day, telling
me to be quiet!
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
So that, the bombing of the Oklahoma building was sort of a
"symbolism", which is understood by those that have been involved
in espionage -- am I correct?
DEBRA VON TRAPP:
Exactly. What happened was, the Japanese government paid for
that. They footed the bill, and MCA Universal actually dispersed
the funds. Goetzman and his associates contracted that bombing.
The bombing was actually conducted by a few, specific individuals
on a Special Ops team out of a base in Alabama -- not acting on
behalf of the United States government -- acting on behalf of
Goetzman and his team.
And that's why you see that that jet got downed over Alabama as well.
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
It appears, from the circumstances and the witnesses, that the
plane may have been bombed. There were several explosions of the
plane in the air, before it hit the ground.
DEBRA VON TRAPP:
The plane was bombed.
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
Well, that's what it appears, from the eyewitnesses. There were
explosions in the plane, before it hit the ground. And that would
be a bombed aircraft.
Tell me this: has there been other violence? Some of us suspect that, a few days later, there was a strange helicopter crash in Texas that seems also related to the Oklahoma City bombing.
DEBRA VON TRAPP:
Well, I've seen some initial data on that. But that's nothing I
have first-hand knowledge on.
What I can tell you is, I have first-hand knowledge on the things...
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
Tell me this: who do you believe the job was contracted out to,
as to the Oklahoma City bombing?
DEBRA VON TRAPP:
A few individuals that are, presently, still-active military
Special Operations, out of a base in Alabama.
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
What base?
DEBRA VON TRAPP:
I know, I know the base and I know an individual holding the
name, rank, and serial numbers of the actual people that were
contracted...
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
What base is that, if we may know?
DEBRA VON TRAPP:
...and I'm... That information is only being given back to
Secretary [of Defense] Perry at this point.
[...to be continued...]
I encourage distribution of "Conspiracy Nation."
Coming to you from Illinois -- "The Land of Skolnick"