("Quid coniuratio est?")
INTERVIEW WITH DEBRA VON TRAPP
By Sherman H. Skolnick
(Transcribed by Brian Francis Redman)
I neither necessarily agree nor disagree with either all or portions of the following. -- CN Editor.
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[...continued...]
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
Well first of all, you believe that that plane was, crashed and
killed everybody, because of sabotage.
DEBRA VON TRAPP:
Yes. And it was specifically set to be downed over Alabama so as
to be recovered within that state.
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
I noticed that one of those on board had previously been on the
National Security Agency advisory board, also on the Army
Security advisory board. So that was a top-level espionage person
that died in that crash.
DEBRA VON TRAPP:
Right. And also, the person in charge of technical acquisition
for the Air Force, out of Alabama, out of the same base that
Goetzman and I reported into on the national...
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
Do you think that the mainstream media should have been aware
that this plane was sabotaged and has covered it up in some way?
DEBRA VON TRAPP:
I think that mainstream media, in many cases, is so attached to
government intelligence that they have no choice but to do that.
I know that I was interviewed both by Jim Norman of Forbes
magazine during my first revelations over Xerox and Aldrich Ames
and Shugart, in the, I guess around '90 and '91. And his story
was killed at that time. He was told to remove his records from
his office and forget that he talked to me. And ironically, he
interviewed me last week about this and the same thing happened
to him two days ago.
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
In other words, Mr. Norman had interviewed you several years ago?
DEBRA VON TRAPP:
Yes. I have my original documents of our communication.
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
And then the story about a division of Xerox in the spy business
was, his magazine killed that story a couple of years ago?
DEBRA VON TRAPP:
Yes.
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
And you believe that his current story that he's working on,
about a company called Systematics, is likewise gonna be killed?
DEBRA VON TRAPP:
Yes. And I was specifically informed two days ago that his
interview of me, regarding the Oklahoma City bombing, which I had
announced from my firm to a news service in Washington, the day
before it happened...
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
Yeah. I understand. You called a very skilled, one of the most
skilled White House journalists -- she's been covering the White
House since [Harry S.] Truman's time -- Sarah McLendon. You left
word on her answering machine the night before the bombing that
something... What did you leave word on?
DEBRA VON TRAPP:
Well, specifically, what had occurred was, I was watching the
President's press conference. Sarah stood up and said, "Mr.
President. What's going on at the CIA? They're shipping records
out of the building, back to ex-employees."
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
Right.
DEBRA VON TRAPP:
And I realized that Sarah had some contact, some awareness, of
the fact that they were trying to dump CIA documents out of the
building. Because I was talking, and putting out press releases,
and had specifically had communication both with Clinton's office
and with [Leon] Panetta's office and with Janet Reno and with
Paul Coffey. [Unclear] the chief of the organized crime and
racketeering section, and had told him that I was going to go
public with this information. And suddenly, the CIA is emptying
the building. And Sarah [McLendon] noticed this. So, as the press
conference was going on, I got on her telephone, and on her voice
mail, and explained to her that I knew what was wrong with the
CIA, proceeded to tell her the background on both the Xerox and
the Japanese, that situation: what had happened as far as the
Japanese and Robert Goetzman and a team of people related to
Systematics, actually, this banking software expert, Jim Cofield,
and a CIA communications expert named Jerry Thomlinson(?).
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
Yeah... Thomlinson's background. He's really into very high tech
in respect to devices that could be used for audio and visual
surveillance.
DEBRA VON TRAPP:
Right. In fact Thomlinson and I were together with Goetzman on
the "bugging" of the Perot petitions committee. Thomlinson
actually was setting up the town hall meetings, and Perot didn't
know that he was actually "bugging" them, on behalf of the CIA.
And Goetzman had me volunteer for a few weeks [unclear] with
Thomlinson while he was doing this.
And, but to get back to Sarah [McLendon], what I left on her voice mail, the background on the story: And I said, "Sarah, our government was responsible for the gas attack in the Japanese subway. And there is an impending attack; there will be a bombing of a U.S. federal building, in retaliation for that."
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
How do you suppose that they... In other words, from your
sources, you suspected that there was something like that gonna
happen?
DEBRA VON TRAPP:
Well now I didn't suspect anything; others, in the middle of the
operation, knew exactly who paid for this, who contracted it, and
who did it -- I... -- firsthand knowledge of this operation. And
what I've been trying to explain to people is that I am not...
Although I am an analyst for a living in my own industry, I, in
fact, was in the middle of this operation. And the reason why I'm
still sitting here, alive, today is because last year, they tried
to kill me. I survived the attack. They actually took me out of
my house. And two sheriff's deputies found me, 100 miles from my
home, barely alive.
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
In other words, you're very brave to come public with this, and
to discuss this.
DEBRA VON TRAPP:
Well what I did was, subsequent to my surviving that attack, they
had a lot of contact with me after that, while I thought I was
trying to turn them in to Janet Reno. And we were fighting, or
in-fighting if you will. And I recorded all their telephone
conversations.
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
In other words, you were very brave in speaking out about these
things. And you feel that that sort of work that you got involved
in, that some in your team had something to do with arranging the
tragedy regarding the Oklahoma building.
Who do you suspect was involved with that?
DEBRA VON TRAPP:
I know exactly who did it. What had happened was, I, along with
Robert Goetzman, an FBI employee, Peter Stanley, a CIA employee
named Wes Thomas, out of New York, a DIA employee named Jim
Cofield, who is a banking communications software transfer
specialist out of Washington, D.C.... This team of people, when
Bush lost the election, we transitioned from the project we were
on, to being paid (although I was never paid -- they were paid)
by the Japanese government through the Embassy of Japan in
Washington to set up a surveillance operation on the Clinton
administration. And essentially what we did was, we arranged to
have a CIA employee that was left at the White House, in an
office administration, named Dale Helm, issue all of the Clinton
administration's purchase orders out of the Executive Office to
all of their front companies. Robert Goetzman had Joint System
Support, Ltd. Peter Stanley had ValCom(?). Jim Cofield had
UniTech(sp?) and Kayjax(?) Engineering in Washington, D.C. And
Wes Thomas used his [unclear] PR firm [unclear] Karen Thomas, who
operates in the computer industry, Thomas & Associates. And all
of those entities, together, processed, procured, and delivered
the software and the hardware under the first purchase orders
issued out of the administration.
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
In other words, they re-equipped the White House when Clinton
came in as the new President...
DEBRA VON TRAPP:
Right.
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
...and you were in with the team that was involved with that?
DEBRA VON TRAPP:
Yeah. In fact, I helped procure a lot of the software and some of
the hardware on that. And basically, what we did was we put
[unclear] motherboards into the new Executive Office computers,
put all-new software in there. Peter Stanley sold Hillary her
MacIntosh. We sold all of the software that was delivered to
the Democratic National Committee -- about a half-million dollars
worth, although they only paid about $52,000 for it.
[...to be continued...]
I encourage distribution of "Conspiracy Nation."
Coming to you from Illinois -- "The Land of Skolnick"