("Quid coniuratio est?")
INTERVIEW WITH SHERMAN SKOLNICK -- MAY 1, 1995
On May 1, 1995, I interviewed, by telephone, Mr. Sherman Skolnick of the Citizens' Committee to Clean-up the Courts [CCCC]. The following is my summary of that interview. (Note that in the following, I neither necessarily agree nor disagree with either all or some of Mr. Skolnick's statements.)
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SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
Okay. Here's something else. We did a story... I think we were
about the first in the country to do a story about Systematics (a
unit of ALLTEL), and that Systematics was involved in spying on
central banks of other countries, using a low-orbit satellite and
INSLAW software, with the "trap door". Do you know what has
happened to that story? Reporters have confronted the foreign
affairs spokesperson for the National Security Council [NSC]
(which is connected with the White House). And the reporters were
told, in respect to Systematics, that it is not unlawful for an
American company to spy overseas.
When the reporters went one step further, and says, "Well, what if they try to bring that information, that they obtained by spying, back into the United States," the spokesperson for the NSC said, "Well... That's a legal question. But it is not unlawful to spy overseas."
So you see: our story about Systematics is "100 percent". In other words, the National Security Council's spokesperson does not deny it, that there has been this spying going on. Because central banks of other countries are very angry at the United States. And it might be one of several reasons why there's an attack on the dollar in respect to the yen, the deutschmark, and the Swiss franc; that might be one of the reasons.
CONSPIRACY NATION:
A lot of people are interested in finding out about this Oklahoma
City bombing. What's your information now? Do you suspect the ATF
now?
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
Well I suspect the ATF of complicity. And, I saw the story,
faxed around by the head of the Michigan Militia [Olson], about
that they believe that there's a connection between the poison
gas attacks in the Japanese subway and this bombing. Now some
people would reject it and say, "Now wait a minute. That's 'way
out'." It is true that others in the militia there told him
[Olson] to resign. However: the story has a certain ring of truth
to it. I'm not going with it as a story, I'm only commenting on a
story that was circulated around. I think it has a certain amount
of validity to it. And I am gonna see just what pieces of other
information tend to support this, well, call it a "theory".
Because you see, there's a number of strange events that, in later times, may end up in some history book as being related events: McNamara's book comes out (which has been in the works for a year). It comes out a few weeks before the Oklahoma bombing, in so many words saying that Americans were lied to about the Vietnam War and that McNamara could have played a role in bringing the truth out, which might have saved... At the time, he knew that the Vietnam War was a fraud. There had already been 16,000 casualties, dead. Which means, from that point forward they could've saved 40,000 Americans! I mean, if total casualties were about 56,000 dead. So he could've saved over 40,000! So a lot of ex-GIs are really "up the wall" about the whole situation. And I've heard that there's a lot of ex-GIs are now joining the militia as a result of the bombing! Never mind that the President says that there's a vast conspiracy against the White House. I think that there's been a backlash and a lot of people say that they're...
Because the militia people have been allowed to say on the television things that were known, but never on the major television: that there are secret societies meeting (like the Trilateral Commission); that perhaps the government has bombed their own building, in order to have an excuse for martial law; that there are large numbers of foreign troops in the United States, and so on -- things that the mass media has avoided ever mentioning. But because the militia's been attacked, this is the way that they retaliate. And I think that many of the things that the militia says -- their spokespeople -- are correct!! Which is, some of the rest of us know about. And how is the media gonna deal with this?
CONSPIRACY NATION:
Like you said: it seems like they're back-tracking; that they're
trying to go back to the O.J. Simpson routine, again, where
"What's the latest on the O.J. Simpson trial."
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
Well, 'cuz the O.J. Simpson thing is, has more or less been
"blanked out".
Because from the details that are coming out about the, having Timothy McVeigh, as a defendant, charged with some role in the bombing -- that seems to be in error. McVeigh's latest lawyer has said that the FBI's got the wrong man. And that may well be true!
CONSPIRACY NATION:
I noticed that too. And I wanted to make a short note of that, is
that, strictly speaking, McVeigh has not been found guilty in a
court of law. But he's being talked about on numerous TV and
radio shows as if he's guilty! But you know, strictly speaking,
he has not been found guilty.
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
Well here's the way that it appears: according to published
reports, McVeigh was a security guard of sorts for Mark Koernke.
Koernke is suspected by others in the Michigan Militia of being a
government plant. Because Koernke has high-level intelligence
connections; he went to one of the top secret military
intelligence schools -- I believe in Arizona. And yes, he is
charming and he says a few things that are interesting. But he...
There's something about him that indicates that he may be a
provocateur! So the fact that Timothy McVeigh worked in some
capacity for him, and is now accused of some role in the
bombing -- I find the whole chain of circumstances very
suspect. In other words, did someone like Koernke tell McVeigh,
"Go and spy out the building," (you know), "'Case' the building"
-- and not tell him why? And then other people [that] are now
becoming witnesses for the FBI says, "Oh yes! We saw McVeigh,
three days before the bombing, looking at the building!"
Well McVeigh -- if that is true -- McVeigh may not have even known what he was doing there, any more than maybe Oswald didn't know what he was doing in Dealey Plaza. I mean, in other words, a "patsy".
CONSPIRACY NATION:
And the other thing is that McVeigh has got, really, a tenuous
connection to the Michigan Militia, in that he had tried to join
-- but they expelled him! Okay? And the thing is, that you get
this bombing. And right with the bombing, juxtaposed with the
bombing, you get story after story about the militias! {4}. And
to me, you know it's like you had said about how the television
kind of gets beyond your thought, and it goes underneath your
thought...
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
Subconscious. Right. And what is never discussed, except -- I
think we're about the only ones in the country that discuss it.
(Because I've been on the periphery of broadcasting for over 30
years.) And that is, the broadcast industry -- radio and TV --
are subject to emergency proclamations -- unpublicized -- by the
White House. And that started during the anti-Vietnam and anti...
the civil rights marches and commotions that occurred in the
'60s, the murder of Dr. King. Because after the murder of Dr.
King, 103 cities were burning. So if Dr. King was assassinated
today, they would quietly announce tonight that he died in the
hospital of "natural causes". You see?
In other words, the radio and TV stations are under the thumb of the White House! And that is happening now. People that I know in broadcasting confirm it, but they'll be darned if they'll go on the air and ever say it, because they fear their license will be in jeopardy.
So the media, now, is so slanted! In other words, Clinton gave an emergency order that the media is to support the White House policy that may be necessary to round up the militia as part of a "broad conspiracy to overthrow the government". And they need the help of the media to soften up the public that "It's okay to round up these people."
So I'm about the only one, that understands broadcasting, that talks about it. None of the others in broadcasting would dare say a single word about the White House emergency pronouncement that's in effect right now, since the bombing. They just won't discuss it!
[...to be continued...]
---------------------------<< Notes >>--------------------------- {4} "...juxtaposed with the bombing, you get story after story about the militias..." Going back to what we all learned in Psychology 101, i.e., Pavlovian response conditioning, we can see how the unthinking public has been conditioned to associate the militia movement with the Oklahoma bombing. Just as Pavlov conditioned dogs to salivate at the sound of a bell by forming an immediate association between the bell and food, so too the unthinking public has been conditioned to associate the militia movement with the Oklahoma bombing, again through repetitive association between the bombing and the militias. In point of fact, as noted, any actual connection is tenuous.
But why has the media conditioned the unthinking public to associate the militia movement with the Oklahoma City bombing? Has the unthinking public been psychologically softened up so as to be willing to accept future government actions against these militias? Stay tuned.
I encourage distribution of "Conspiracy Nation."
Coming to you from Illinois -- "The Land of Skolnick"