Conspiracy Nation -- Vol. 3 Num. 31

("Quid coniuratio est?")

SHERMAN SKOLNICK -- WHITEWATER UPDATE

Tom Valentine's guest on Radio Free America (Shortwave, 5.065 MHz, mon-fri, 9 pm cst) on November 30, 1994 was independent researcher and founder of the Citizens Committee to Clean-up the Courts [CCCC], Mr. Sherman Skolnick. Note that views expressed in the following do not necessarily reflect my own views or those of Conspiracy Nation.

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SHERMAN SKOLNICK [continues]:
So, I ended up in front of his [Gierum's] office. And he confessed to me in the presence of a former client, as a witness, that the White House is trying to "frame" him about this $50 million and these other matters involving Clinton, and that he won't be able to defend himself, even though he's a skilled lawyer, because the thing is "wired", as they say. In other words, he was fearful that [the "fix" was in]... The only thing is that maybe, if I publicize it, maybe I can prevent him from getting "framed".

So we took the various points of his confession, we wrote it down just as he said it, and we put it into the record of this former client of his who's got a case pending. We sent the copy under the rules, as provided, to Mr. Gierum. And when it came up in court, Gierum didn't dispute it. So in a civil case, it's taken to be admitted. 'Cause when the time comes for him to challenge it, if he doesn't challenge it, it's taken to be admitted. Those are the rules. [CN -- But by "admitted" does Skolnick mean admitted into evidence or also an admission that the confession is true?]

So there is Gierum's confession in January '94 that relates to the current situation where sources close to Kenneth Starr are saying that there's a series of indictments coming, but that so far they're not gonna indict the President and the first lady. That is, not yet!

Now we happen to know a great deal about why they're delaying indicting the President and the first lady. First of all, they invoke "national security"; they feel the country is gonna be turned upside-down if the President is under indictment. I can't... The nearest that ever came to that was in '74 when a District of Columbia grand jury voted an indictment against Nixon which was squelched, and it wasn't discussed until 5 years later that there was such an indictment when Nixon resigned. Most people didn't realize that when Nixon was pardoned there had been a secret federal criminal indictment against him.

TOM VALENTINE:
Well, you see, in order to be pardoned he had to be indicted!

SKOLNICK

Yeah! Legal...

VALENTINE

You can't be pardoned without an indictment or a charge against you.

SKOLNICK

Right! Legal scholars wrote articles in the legal publications, law journals, of -- How is it that the incoming, appointed President, Gerald Ford, pardoned Nixon... from what!? I mean, what... And that was because there was a squelched, suppressed, secret indictment. And the foreman of that grand jury talked about it 5 years later.

O.K. So that... I'm just giving you a little historical there.

Now, what's happening is, the grand jury in Little Rock is gonna either name Clinton and his wife as co-conspirators, which is one hair away from actual federal criminal indictment. And I don't know how the President is gonna be able to continue, being named as a co-conspirator, because a co-conspirator generally is so named because he becomes a government witness against the other defendants!

In other words, David Hale, the former municipal judge, has "fingered" Clinton and his wife as being involved in a massive Small Business Administration series of...

VALENTINE

Yes. David Hale literally has put out that he's willing to testify to this. And he probably already has told the grand jury that he was coerced into making these loans by the Governor at the time.

SKOLNICK

Right.

VALENTINE

And under Small Business Administration rules, he was coerced into breaking the rules.

SKOLNICK

The next step that I'm going to go into is a little complicated. And I'm gonna try my very best to make it in non-technical language.

VALENTINE

All right, the next step is very complicated so what we're gonna do is stop now. Because if you start on it, I'm gonna have to cut right in in about 15 seconds.

My guest is Sherman Skolnick. He is the Committee to Clean-up the Courts.

And you have a telephone number, quickly.

SKOLNICK

Uh, it's 731-1100, in Chicago, which is area code 312. That's a regular phone call [not a 900 number]...

VALENTINE

All right. I'll plug it for ya.

I'm Tom Valentine. This is Radio Free America.

[...break...]

All right, we're talkin' with Sherman Skolnick, folks. And if you, any time, 7 days a week, 24 hours a day, there's a telephone number. It's not a special number; it's an ordinary telephone call. So in the middle of the night it won't cost you hardly anything. It's a 5-minute message. You dial 312-731-1100. That's the Hotline, from the Committee to Clean-up the Courts. And they've always got something juicy on it, wouldn't you say, Sherman?

SKOLNICK

There's a summary of our discussion here today, about Clinton facing indictment.

VALENTINE

All right! So you're ready now to bring us up to...

SKOLNICK

Right. Now, so the Democrats control the Justice Department, right?

VALENTINE

Yep.

SKOLNICK

And they're well-aware of what Kenneth Starr, described in the popular press as a conservative Republican, special prosecutor appointed by, under special law, to go into these matters that the Justice Department would be disqualified to go into.

So Kenneth Starr is apparently gonna have the grand jury name Clinton and his wife as unindicted co-conspirators in a series of indictments involving former Justice Department official Webster Hubbell and the current Arkansas Governor, Jim "Guy" Tucker.

VALENTINE

It would be pretty hard to indict Webster Hubbell and not indict his law partner from the Rose Law Firm [i.e. Hillary Clinton].

SKOLNICK

Yeah. Well that's the problem they're dealing with. But they're being blackmailed and threatened. Because what happens is, on a previous program of yours I took an hour to explain how they shut down the cocaine smuggling operation at the Mena airport, Arkansas (which was under Clinton, as Governor), and have moved the dope operation just south of Chicago, to Joliet, where they're bringing in great loads of "China White" [heroin]. And the DEA and the FBI know all about it; I confronted their top people in October. And they won't do anything.

Now the reason for that is, the one that is arranging... that arranged this smuggling operation in '86, was Jim Thompson, who at that time was the [Republican] Governor of Illinois. He's still very powerful. He's a close crony of George Bush.

And so, the Democratic Justice Department, under Janet Reno, in so many words is saying, "O.K. You want to dirty-up the President and the first lady? Fine. We are gonna 'put to the wall' one of George Bush's closest cronies on a dope smuggling charge." And so, they've got the... there's a stand-off! In other words, they may not even indict, they may not even mention, Clinton and his wife as unindicted co-conspirators because Janet Reno's bunch is saying, "Hey! We're gonna put some [laughs], we're gonna put some Republicans to the wall!" [laughs]

VALENTINE

You know that's, that's... There's a lot of people listening that would say, "Aww... come on. None of this can be true. People in that high-up [of a] bracket just don't get into things, don't do things like this. This is a lot of conspiratorial paranoia..."

SKOLNICK

No, no, no, no, no. We... As I explained on a previous program, there was a Treasury [Department] unit investigating this dope smuggling since '83. Because it's a foreign thing, involving some espionage people bringing in "China White" (which is a very pure opium; it's high-purity), that the CIA and other espionage groups, the NSA and others, wanted... they didn't want it checked out! So the Treasury Department had compiled, in their unit, about 30,000 pages of surveillance reports. And they got very upset and (when they tried to shut down their operation) they turned it over to a private investigator. (And you can figure out who that might be.)

So, I mean...

VALENTINE

It's hard to guess.

SKOLNICK

[laughs] I mean, we know what we're talking about.

Thompson, our former Governor, is facing indictment. And it's a stand-off now whether Clinton and his wife will be named as unindicted co-conspirators...

VALENTINE

Well why don't we indict 'em all!? That would be as juicy as "O.J." [Simpson]!

SKOLNICK

Tom, as you know, I'm an independent: neither a Democrat nor a Republican -- "A plague on both their houses" -- but, I'm just reporting facts, as a journalist, of what is happening. I'm in favor of them, as a public-minded citizen, I'm in favor that they get Thompson, "Guy" Tucker, and Clinton and his wife! [laughs]

VALENTINE

But the media, the media is sitting on this and they have access to this same information. But they don't... they're not gonna do anything.

SKOLNICK

Well if you read the Los Angeles Times story very carefully, they are saying... Kenneth Starr, the special prosecutor, is not yet going to indict Clinton and his wife.

Well that's interesting. I mean, the very fact that that comes up in the second paragraph of the story as re-printed in the [Chicago] Tribune on November 25th. It's all very interesting!

I mean, those that know the facts, that know various peoples at various levels of the government -- like ourselves, because we've been at this since 1958; we're not greenhorns, you know what I mean? We know what the basis of this story is! There's a stand- off!

[...to be continued...]

I encourage distribution of "Conspiracy Nation."

Brian Francis Redman bigxc@prairienet.org "The Big C"

Coming to you from Illinois -- "The Land of Skolnick"