Troy Underhill on KSFO Radio
July 19, 1995
Troy Underhill, of Media Bypass magazine, was the guest on a radio show out of the San Francisco area recently. He discussed the explosive James R. Norman article, "Fostergate" (in the current issue of Media Bypass; phone 1-800-4BYPASS to order).
I neither necessarily agree nor disagree with either all or parts of the following. Persons mentioned are invited to send their rebuttals, of reasonable length, to bigxc@prairienet.org for probable distribution.
-- Brian Francis Redman, Editor-in-Chief
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GEOFF METCALF [host]:
Yes, my name is Geoff Metcalf, in for Michael Savage on the
"Savage Nation" on a gorgeous bay area Wednesday afternoon.
And here it is: the August issue of Media Bypass magazine has an article written by James R. Norman, entitled "Fostergate". And to touch on some of the specific details of this compelling article (which I have read several times, highlighted, and kind of looked at and went "Wow") we have with us on the phone, from Media Bypass magazine, Troy Underhill.
Good afternoon, Troy.
TROY UNDERHILL:
Good afternoon, Geoff. It's a pleasure to be on your program
today.
GEOFF METCALF:
Appreciate your... I know you've been runnin' around all week.
When I talked to ya last week, you wanted to come in Friday, I
wanted to do this on Monday, and you were travelling. So we got
you... We split the difference: you're here on Wednesday.
TROY UNDERHILL:
Great.
And how timely it is.
GEOFF METCALF:
Well I've been saying... I've been listening intently to the
Whitewater hearings in the Senate. And I keep waiting to see
if... Because I promised you I wouldn't break this until today --
if anything would sneak up that would allude to what is in the
Norman article. And so far, it hasn't happened. The obvious
question (as we continue to bury the lead and drive our listeners
crazy) is, do you expect this is gonna be brought up in the
Whitewater hearings, this week or next?
TROY UNDERHILL:
Well I can tell you what has transpired since we decided to go
with the story about two weeks ago. It was all under lock and
key, as far as getting the information out. Someone on the
Internet, I believe a gentleman by the name of Sherman Skolnick,
leaked, on the Internet...
GEOFF METCALF:
I saw. I tell ya: before we go any further, let me tell our
listeners two basic things: number one, a couple of weeks before
Vince Foster died, everybody acknowledged that he was in kind of
a depression. Well, they say that he was upset because of, you
know, Wall Street Journal articles and other kind of B.S. The
fact of the matter is, he had learned that he was under
investigation for espionage by the CIA!
TROY UNDERHILL:
That is, indeed, correct.
GEOFF METCALF:
And you go: "Well wait a minute! That's crazy!" But what made him
think that?
Well his first indication that something "wasn't right in Dodge" was, he inquired into his coded bank account in a Swiss bank, and he found that the $2.73 million that he had stashed there had "gone away". It was zeroed out! It was empty! And the money had been transferred to -- where? Tell us, Troy.
TROY UNDERHILL:
The U.S. Treasury, sir. The U.S. Treasury.
GEOFF METCALF:
Up jumped the Devil, Vince gets a little nervous. He cancels a
two day trip to Geneva (that's been acknowledged) and he starts
askin' around -- you know, "What's goin' on?! What's goin' on?!"
So that's the basis. And it gets a lot deeper than that. But what's happened since this was leaked, Troy?
TROY UNDERHILL:
Since this was leaked, our office has been receiving many phone
calls from legal counsel with the House and the Senate judiciary,
and the banking committees. We have referred those people... They
wanted to come to our office last week and review our documents.
Of course, as journalists, we had no intention of revealing our
documentation that we had nor where we actually got the
documentation -- unless we could do that in front of God and
every live television program, every live television camera in
the United States of America.
People that have supplied the information for this story are people that would go to prison for the rest of their known lives. Because they have violated what is called "The National Security Act".
In a nutshell, the National Security Act was set up by our federal government so they could blatantly lie to the American people and cover up any covert operations and, basically, get themselves "off the hook" by being able to lie in public and never have the information disseminated to the American people!
GEOFF METCALF:
Now, wait a minute. This shouldn't have been any great, quick
flash to 'em. Back in April, [Jim] Norman sent a written request
to the White House...
TROY UNDERHILL:
That is correct.
GEOFF METCALF:
...asking for, you know, clarification and so forth on, you know,
"this is the essence of the article". So... In fact, Mike McCurry
[White House press secretary] sent a snotty note back to him,
saying "Don't do anything until we can sit down and counsel you."
TROY UNDERHILL:
Sure he did. Sure he did.
The key here... There is some information that we, per our legal counsel's strict advice, cannot talk about. But the key here that has scared a lot of people that have revealed this information -- and I'm not talkin', Geoff, people's words. I'm talking actual documentation. Paper documentation. Computer documentation. Bank accounts of over a hundred current political figures that are running our government today, that have bank accounts overseas that someone (and I'm not going to say that Media Bypass has it in our possession, because they [documents] are not at this office, if we even know of them) uh... implicate many politicians that are running our government right now in having these illicit, illegal, fraudulent, illegally obtained foreign bank accounts. And if they want to, on national television, before (like I said) God and every live television camera in the United States... If they want to "put up or shut up", there will be people, under writ of immunity, [who will] disclose these bank account numbers in front of everyone.
GEOFF METCALF:
What I found interesting is that Foster is just one of a whole
bunch of high-level U.S. political types who've had their Swiss
accounts emptied!
TROY UNDERHILL:
That is correct.
GEOFF METCALF:
And this is kind of precious. Because you think of these guys
squirreling this stuff away. And according to your article here,
over the past two years, more than 2 billion dollars has been
cleaned out of these accounts belonging to figures connected with
the U.S. government. And they can't bitch about it, because
they'd have to acknowledge that they had it!
TROY UNDERHILL:
That is correct.
One thing I'd like to tell your audience now, that we've really had some problems with, in the legality part. But I was just told... I just got back from Denver. You knew that. I've been out in Denver, Colorado. My plane landed just a couple hours ago. And Mr. Norman... A lot of people out there say, "Well, every 'conspiracy nut' in this nation has written somethin' about this, they've written sometin' about that."
James R. Norman is a senior editor at Forbes magazine. Not Forbes media critic, but one of the most prestigious financial magazines in the United States of America. And this story was spiked [suppressed]. I cannot, and I think you know, Geoff, why I can't go into why it was spiked by Forbes. But the credibility factor, the documented proof, what is in this story, in front of the Senate or the House judiciary or the banking committees -- under writs of immunity, where these men and women that have this information and can be given, uh waivered from being sent to prison for life, for violating the National Security Act (which, in my opinion, would be in the best interests of the entire population of the United States of America)... We are trying, right now (as a matter of fact, again, tomorrow morning), to reach Senator Alfonse D'Amato.
I sat in dismay, in Denver, Colorado the other day, and watched his opening comments...
GEOFF METCALF:
Well I've been listening intently for any hint.
I tell you what: Troy, we've got some business to do here ourselves. So let me put you on hold for a second, okay? Don't go away. We'll come back and continue.
[...break...]
GEOFF METCALF:
...today, Troy Underhill from Media Bypass magazine who's
telling us about this controversial "Fostergate" story by James
R. Norman, which will be in the August issue of Media Bypass
magazine.
Now Troy, what, if any, reaction have you had from the folks who are putting on these Whitewater hearings?
TROY UNDERHILL:
Like I said, we have, I have not spoken to our legal counsel, who
is John DeCamp, one of the most prominent attorneys in this
country when it comes to first amendment rights. We have many
Supreme Court decisions that back up our being able to print this
story. We have not had any reply from the White House. But one:
the magazine is on the streets; it just went out yesterday. We
have had many tens of thousands of extra copies of this
publication printed for this month for what we believe to be, is
going to be a firestorm. The people that are going to be
receiving this magazine, hand-delivered by myself and two other
staff members -- we've been invited down to the Perot convention,
which is just about 3 weeks off, in Dallas. The speakers are
Dole, Gramm, Pete Wilson, Pat Buchanan, Richard Luger, Arlen
Specter, Lamar Alexander, Bob Dornan, Alan Keyes, Maury Taylor,
Newt Gingrich, Trent Lott, Hailey(sp?) Barber, Tom Daschle, Dick
Gephardt, Chris Dodd... And I could go on and on.
GEOFF METCALF:
I'm still waiting for my invitation! Ross hasn't asked me yet.
[laughs]
TROY UNDERHILL:
Well I'm very surprised that he asked us. He's actually penned a
letter for our readers, along with a lot of these people that
I've just mentioned.
The one thing that they probably were not aware of is that their, let's say their stance, or their positions on certain issues, to our readers, how they clarified them. They probably didn't anticipate it bein' in this issue, with this story by Mr. Norman. Nor did we, when we envisioned doing this August cover, with Mr. Perot and the convention, know that the senior editor of Forbes magazine was going to allow us to run this story. The fact of the matter is, Mr. D'Amato and those involved behind the scenes will be getting certified copies of this story, as if they don't already have them.
The story did run Monday, in the Jerusalem Post. And I believe it was set to run yesterday (though I've not been able to confirm it), that it was going to run in the London Times. The Wall Street Journal has contacted us several times. And I anticipate sometime in the near future them going into this story once again. (They have covered Media Bypass back in April.)
GEOFF METCALF:
But Troy, here's an obvious question. Obviously, Vince Foster is
significant right now because of the questions about his death. A
lot of people just flat out don't buy it as being a suicide.
TROY UNDERHILL:
Well the facts... I don't know if you saw Nightline last night.
But Accuracy In Media was on, against Ted Koppell. And he [Reed
Irvine] said at the end, "Ted, if you and the journalists across
America would just look at the facts, you will -- and report it
honestly to the American people -- there's no way that you can
deny that Vince Foster, whether he killed himself or was
murdered, it did not happen in Fort Marcy Park."
And the cover up is immense {1}. The reason that Mr. Fiske (a lot of the American people don't realize this)... Mr. Fiske had prior involvement with BCCI {2}, with representation of his law firm.
GEOFF METCALF:
And he was also hand-picked by Webb Hubbell.
TROY UNDERHILL:
Sure. And another thing we have, with Mr. Starr! Mr. Starr, who
when he was Adjunct General, he also recused himself -- excuse
me. Solicitor General. Under the Reagan administration, when this
all started, [Starr] recused himself without explanation in a
matter involving Inslaw and the PROMIS software. The trumped-up
version being called the "smart" version.
GEOFF METCALF:
I tell you what: I don't want to confuse our listeners too much,
because this does get a little convoluted. But let me just say
this, because I've touched on it in the past: there is a long
litany... In fact, I faxed you guys an old copy that I had, of
mysterious deaths around Bill Clinton and BCCI and Inslaw. And
without making any suggestion that, you know, there is some
nefarious plot afoot here (as many people have), the mere fact
that the number is now up to 30-something people that died under
mysterious circumstances around the same thing. You go, "Well..."
It kind of makes you go, "Huh?"
And inclusive in this article, it's all linked back to Inslaw, the PROMIS software, and the fact that these same players (and Foster's been involved for a long time)... in insinuating these things into other countries so that we would have access to some of that information. Now, it looks like it's turnin' around and bitin' the dog in the hand now.
TROY UNDERHILL:
Mr. Foster was a behind-the-scenes manager for a support company
that handled a lot of the secret spy efforts: Systematics. The
company called "Systematics".
It seems that Systematics has put on the Internet (they're very hyperactive litigators)... They are trying to threaten and intimidate anybody from bringing out any connection.
When they were contacted by Mr. Norman, they just denied, every which way you could imagine, their involvement. Well I have in this office, and in several locations throughout the United States, a document that shows Rose Law Firm's big corporate clients. And Jack Stephens, Inc. and Systematics, Inc. are among those clients! The simple fact of the matter is, the reason that a lot of people are concerned that those in Congress right now are not gonna go into this area are twofold: one is the National Security Act; two, it's because there are people that cut across both party lines that are involved in this. And it all started...
GEOFF METCALF:
And some of that 2 billion dollars that was cleaned out by the,
uh...
TROY UNDERHILL:
Correct. And any caller, anybody out there that would think that
this is a, you know, like they're trying to say with Waco: "It's,
they're trying to embarrass Bill Clinton" -- this is not an issue
of Democrat or Republican politics. This is an issue of
corruption within the highest levels of government in the United
States. And like we've had in the past in this country, if the
American people, the 260-some-odd million people in this country
who are the rightful owners, do not stand up and absolutely
demand the entire truth, then the trust -- what little trust is
left in our government with the electorate (both political
parties. You know, there is no favoritism)...
GEOFF METCALF:
Well, Troy, it's a bipartisan thing. There's no question about
that. But, Troy... I'll hunker down, if you want to take some
phone calls in a moment, right after we do a little bit of
business.
We're speaking with Troy Underhill, from Media Bypass magazine. Their August issue, an article by James Norman, which said that Vince Foster was under investigation by the CIA for having sold secrets to the Israelis! And that, a couple of weeks before he died, he realized that he had 2.73 million bucks that he had squirreled away in a Swiss bank account, [and] somehow the feds got a hold of it. It had been transferred, by wire transfer, to the U.S. Treasury.
These are the facts. Those, and more, will be discussed in a moment, right after this, on Hot Talk 5600. We invite your phone calls to, the Savage Nation, which is this place right here. I'm Geoff Metcalf. This is Troy Underhill. We're talking about the controversial article that is appearing in the August issue (which is just going out now), in Media Bypass magazine, that says Vince Foster found out, a couple of weeks before he died -- I didn't say "killed himself" -- before he died, that he was under investigation by the CIA.
Now one of the obvious questions, Troy, is, Foster... Yeah. He's dead. But the fear is that other people who may have been among those two [billion] dollars that was swept out of off-shore banks, that they may actually conspire to keep this thing secret.
TROY UNDERHILL:
That is, indeed, correct. One thing that we have on our side is
we have the opportunity of informing enough of the public where
they will demand pressure. Take Waco, for instance. And now that
we've started...
GEOFF METCALF:
Take a look at Oklahoma City.
TROY UNDERHILL:
Take a look at Oklahoma City, another good case in point.
The fact of the matter is, there are people in this country, right now, that (and I'm gonna keep goin' back to this), if the public outcry is intense enough, these people will disclose irrefutable evidence! By documented evidence, audio tapes of wiretapping that had taken place. When we talk about Mr. Foster and his meeting up in Maine, shortly... the weekend before he died, where they had said that he and Webb Hubbell were up there on a weekend of relaxation...
GEOFF METCALF:
That was damage control, wasn't it?
TROY UNDERHILL:
That was damage control. They were trying to find out who would
have known about this money.
The fact of the matter is, Mr. Foster, being in the position that he was, also had access (and that being, his position with Systematics, working with the National Security Agency), would have access to some very secretive, very critical coding and encrypting information for some of our nuclear warheads -- by virtue of what he was doing -- all under the cloak of the National Security Act!
Geoff, this is a very scarey thing that we're in, in this country right now. When we talk about Mena, Arkansas and cocaine and money laundering, and when we talk about ADFA [Arkansas Development Finance Authority], or we talk about Whitewater -- those things are just, they're such a small portion of what's been going on in this country! And in the world financial markets, for the last 12 to 15 years, by virtue of the fact that some very... let's say some very sophisticated bank tracking software [that] would allow someone, or a group of individuals, to access banks' transactions per day, or per week.
And one thing that we in the United States, a lot of us don't grasp, is that the paper we carry around in our pocket, the federal reserve notes, they are not wealth. They are instruments of debt. And what is real wealth is nothing more than numerical digits in a bank account: which gives you power, which gives you credit potential. That is what we're talking about. It's something that...
GEOFF METCALF:
You need to get Jacques [Unclear] to write an article for your
magazine, explaining that whole debt thing.
TROY UNDERHILL:
Yeah. It's very intriguing. It's actually mind-boggling. It's
hard to understand! But if you can somehow access banks,
throughout the world, and take numbers out of one account and
transfer, just numbers, to another account, you're instantly, you
have made, you are wealthy. Or whoever has wealth. Where you and
I carrying around some paper in our pocket go and buy a burger at
McDonalds and we think we got a bargain -- or maybe we didn't.
It's very interesting.
GEOFF METCALF:
It kind of personifies the old Meyer Rothschild coda: "I don't
care who runs the country. Just let me control the money."
TROY UNDERHILL:
That is correct.
GEOFF METCALF:
Here's the absolute control, where, with that PROMIS software --
that a federal judge said the government stole "by trickery,
fraud and deceit"...
TROY UNDERHILL:
And what a lot of people don't realize, that that federal judge
was not reconfirmed, the following year, to his post. He was only
one of three federal judges that was not reconfirmed.
And then in the appeal, it was overturned. And the government, so far, won. {3}.
One thing, when people read this story, they'll read how this all started, in 1981, under the Reagan administration. It actually probably started as a good thing! They were trying to track, through banking transactions, some of the terrorists, international terrorists, through the money flows. And they were working in co-operation with Israel, because Israel is a number one terrorist location. That's where a lot of things...
GEOFF METCALF:
And actually, the one thing I want to crystalize for the
listeners: this was not a plot on the part of the CIA to go after
a "Clintonista" and nail Vince Foster. They just happened to be
monitoring transactions from the Mossad and they realized that
Vince Foster's name jumped up! {4}. So in the normal
reconnaisance that they were doing, this electronic
reconnaisance...
TROY UNDERHILL:
They were puttin' this software out all over the world, basically
to get everyone on the same type of data transmission, the same
key commands and... so the information would be easy to analyze.
One thing that allowed these banks -- they even came to know that
their software was, let's say "tricked out": it had a "back
door". They weren't gonna say anything because they were havin'
pressure put on them by the International Monetary Fund and our
government. They were gonna audit these banks. And these banks,
most of the major banks throughout the world...
GEOFF METCALF:
Well, again: I'm trying to keep it as simple as I can, without
confusing our listeners too much. But I found it interesting, and
I'm waiting to hear if the Whitewater hearings are gonna address
the fact, that documents relating to Systematics were among those
reportedly taken from Foster's office right after his death. And
Webb Hubbell's "in the box" today, and I haven't heard them get
to that yet.
TROY UNDERHILL:
Well I guarantee you one thing, Geoff. If your audience and all
the other people out there that we are disclosing this
information to would make that proverbial phone call to, not
necessarily their congressman or -woman, but to those that are on
those committees, and let them know that they know, the
pressure's gonna be on them.
I don't know, as you and I speak today, what's been going on with our legal counsel and the legal counsel for the House and Senate. But I can tell you this: we, and with the help of some other very prominent individuals, are gonna put some major pressure on those that are conducting these hearings. And we'll just see if they are statesmen, or we'll just see if they are nothing more than...
GEOFF METCALF:
Well I was glad to see your plane made it back from Colorado
without having a "mysterious accident".
TROY UNDERHILL:
[laughs]
GEOFF METCALF:
I tell you what. We've got some people who have some comments, on
the phone, and I want to get to them at 808-5600.
And he's been holding for quite a while, so let's get to Bill, first. Bill, in San Francisco, you're on KSFO with Troy Underhill and Geoff Metcalf. Howdy!
And also, I'd like to know, how do they get money from Swiss bank accounts? I thought those were untouchable. How are they pullin' it out of the account?
TROY UNDERHILL:
Well, it's when you can enter into a "back door". Now Geoff
wanted me to keep it simple and I'm not the computer analyst that
some people, that have documented the information in this
article...
GEOFF METCALF:
Basically, what the PROMIS software did, and the way it was
converted by Bob Maxwell and the guy, the guys who were peddling
it: it allowed the banks to track the transactions, but we could
"sneak in" through the "back door". That's what the CIA was
doing, is what a group of guys...
TROY UNDERHILL:
We can go into account #179437... There's like a 60-digit row of
numbers that equal one bank account. And we can enter that bank
account, and then take... Let's say there was a 5 million dollar
transaction in that bank account that day. We could take the
transaction data account number and move it to another account!
And that's, the next morning, that's where it is.
TROY UNDERHILL:
They... I would say this: that some very prominent politicians in
our U.S. House of Representatives and our U.S. Senate are
involved in this. And the name for Systematics, Incorporated,
Jackson Stephens, who is a billionaire out, just "happens to be"
out of Arkansas, if people will look at who is financing a major
contribution to Bob Dole's presidential election, you will find a
man by the name of Jackson Stephens.
TROY UNDERHILL:
Yes, sir.
TROY UNDERHILL:
I've heard some about that. A person, a friend of mine who has a
friend who has a friend, who has access to some of these bank
account numbers, says that that was not as credible as it was
built up to be, and there was never an account down there that
they could find. And these men are...
TROY UNDERHILL:
Yes. It was "Chelsea Rodham" I believe, or "Chelsea Jefferson".
These men work for the agency [CIA] as computer hackers, and they
could not find any trace of it in that location.
GEOFF METCALF:
Bill, I thank you for the call. We're gonna have to take a brief
pause, and then we'll come back to Troy Underhill and continue
our discussion about their controversial story called
"Fostergate", which will be in the August issue.
Troy, a lot of people are asking: Can they only get Media Bypass by the phone number? Or can they get it in a bookstore somewhere?
TROY UNDERHILL:
There is, we have about 400 distributors, mainly in the midwest.
There's a few out west. But they can call an 800 number [info on
how to subscribe].
GEOFF METCALF:
Good enough. In the meantime, we're gonna talk to Virginia, in
Sonol(?). You're on KSFO with Troy Underhill and Geoff Metcalf.
Hi, Virginia!
GEOFF METCALF:
Good, thank you.
And I would like to comment that this is not a new story. The first coverage of this (and it pertains not just to any particular president, but to our intelligence community as a whole) dates back to a Wired article in December of 1993 that dealt with FINCEN. And the article was written by Anthony Kemmering. And it pertains to every individual out there. The United States government is trying to track anything over 100 dollars in any bank account for any individual citizen in the U.S. FINCEN is the agency created by the United States government. And it's (FINCEN stands for FINancial Crimes Enforcement Network) to monitor banking.
And FINCEN used PROMIS as a "back door", they had a "trojan horse". But thereby a man named Michael Riconosciuto and the Wackenhut Security Corporation, which was Bill Casey's firm, to follow up third world nations in their bankings with the larger banks, within the United States.
There has been many deaths over this {5}. I don't know if Troy's familiar with Danny Casolaro, but he was executed in Martinsburg, West Virginia, over this story. Two weeks prior to Danny's death, there was an execution murder in Guatemala of a financial news network stringer by the name of Anton Inge(?). And Alan Cranston drew our attention to that -- former senator Alan Cranston.
GEOFF METCALF:
Virginia, there is a long list of names, that continues to grow
in length, of people who have died mysteriously and/or through
alleged "suicides" and what not. We've published the list in the
past. We've put it out. It's available to those people who want
it.
And all I wanted to tell your listeners is, that Michael Riconosciuto is detailed in length, along with the O.S.S. connection, by Mr. Garrison, long before this story ever became front page news.
GEOFF METCALF:
I tell you what, Virginia. I'd like to put you on hold. And if
you'd be kind enough to give a phone number to my producer's son,
or where I can get a hold of you off the air, I'd like to do that
again.
In the meantime, let's get to Mark in Pleasant Hill. You're on KSFO with Troy Underhill and Geoff Metcalf. Hi!
GEOFF METCALF:
Yeah. I know what that has to do with: the blue and the red
money.
GEOFF METCALF:
Well I tell ya what. You're digressing a little bit on what we're
talking about here. And I don't know if...
GEOFF METCALF:
Well let's ask him. Troy, is there anything that magazine is
working on, connected with that?
TROY UNDERHILL:
Well, I'll say this, Geoff. I don't know how many months you've
had our magazine. We're in the middle of our third year. And
these are the types, along with educational, historical,
constitutional issues, that we've been dealing with since our
inception.
And with the paper currency, that's another tracking mechanism, versus overseas, where it would be a different color denomination. We have dealt with these subjects and with [those of] the lady who spoke with, that called in just a moment ago. We have been doing this.
But the thing that makes this, that we feel makes this story so prominent, is the fact that the involvement with one of the leading, one of the what a lot of us would call the "secular media" or the "controlled" media. [i.e., connection to Forbes of Jim Norman, author of the "Fostergate" article.]
GEOFF METCALF:
The mainstream media.
TROY UNDERHILL:
The mainstream media.
You know, we're all supposed to be...
GEOFF METCALF:
The mainstream media that your magazine bypasses! [laughs]
TROY UNDERHILL:
That is correct. They are chiming the same tune. And, of course,
they spiked it. We ran it.
But the man is "sticking by his guns" -- Mr. Norman -- and I applaud him. And this is something that, of course, you read, we put the White House response letter in our magazine, from Michael McCurry.
GEOFF METCALF:
And I tell you what: we're gonna share that with our listeners in
a moment. (First we have some business to do.)
[...break...]
...Media Bypass magazine. And I told our listeners, Troy, I'd share with them the response that the White House provided to Mr. Norman back in April, when he asked for clarification on it. And it's a quick letter. It just says that
Dear Mr. Norman:
This letter responds to your April 17th, 1995 request.
The allegations contained in your request are outrageous. Publication of these false allegations will discredit [Forbes], maliciously tarnish the reputation of Vince Foster, and cause great pain to Mr. Foster's wife and family.
Should [Forbes] insist on publishing these baseless allegations, we insist that the <<blank>> have a pre- publication meeting with Jean Chervern(sp?) of the White House counsel's office and a personal representative of the president and first lady.
David E. Kendall(sp?)
William & Connolly(sp?)
(And he provides the phone numbers for Ms. Chervern... And the numbers are printed here, in the magazine!)
They were ticked! And apparently their concern was that such a story would tarnish the reputation of Vince Foster and bring great pain to his family. Notwithstanding the fact that, if this stuff is... and it is documented! How can you ignore it?
Troy, how do they respond to this?
TROY UNDERHILL:
For one thing, the reason we put the phone numbers in there was,
we're nothing more than a public service to the American people,
if they may want to...
GEOFF METCALF:
Well I thought you put 'em in there to "crunch their cookies"!
TROY UNDERHILL:
Ummm... I'll let you use those words.
GEOFF METCALF:
I just did.
TROY UNDERHILL:
But the simple fact of the matter is (and I'm gonna keep goin'
back to this, Jeff): we can bring this out to the American
people. I'm hoping, within the next couple of weeks, Forbes
will, on their op-ed page, write on this very subject. The fact
of the matter is, in this country, what we are dealing with is
some of the most criminal elements of this country not being the
guy down the street that steals a loaf of bread (though he is a
criminal). We're dealing with our politicians, the men and women
who run our country, benefiting where you and I have to make it
the old-fashioned way: we have to get out and sweat, and we have
to earn it the hard way. And...
GEOFF METCALF:
Well all the spin on Vince Foster was he was "squeeky clean" "Mr.
Nice Guy" -- and never any mention of the fact that he had $2.73
million squirreled away in some Swiss bank account.
TROY UNDERHILL:
Where was the media!? Where was the media... You know, how they
went after, let's say, a guy like Mr. Nixon? They just tore him
to pieces. And hell, he resigned over it! Over what they were
comin' after him for. Where was the media when Mr. Foster died? A
couple days of information, then just carry on as if nothing
happened. And here we're dealing with the highest-ranking
government official to die under mysterious circumstances since
John F. Kennedy! And we get two or three days mention in the
press, and it's just brushed over.
There's something really wrong in this country, Geoff. There's something really...
GEOFF METCALF:
One of the constant concerns that a lot of our listeners have
articulated is, that with Vince Foster, with... You go back to
Ruby Ridge. It seems like it started with Ruby Ridge, it got
worse at Waco. Oklahoma City. It's not so much that anyone is
saying, "Hey! Yeah, yeah. This is a conspiracy." But questions
that reasonable people would ask, aren't being asked!!
TROY UNDERHILL:
Yeah, look at what happened, what the BATF was just caught at
down in Tennessee (I'm sure you're aware of that), with what --
and I'm gonna quote -- the "nigger hunting licenses" they were
selling.
GEOFF METCALF:
...was talking about that on the air yesterday and today.
TROY UNDERHILL:
Well, let me tell ya this. The gentlemen, the men down there that
got into this and filmed it (and I'm talkin' on video tape, and
photographs)... One of the men, that happens to be a subscriber
to our magazine, we got the exclusive, over the weekend. We have
the video footage. And when you see the 24-man color portrait of
all these BATF guys -- some of them are even wearing their BATF
shirts -- flipping "the finger" off at the camera, holding up
their "nigger hunting license". And we ask, where in the hell
is Peter Jennings, Dan Rather, Tom Brokaw, and Ted Turner? It's a
travesty in the United States of America when the American people
can't be given this information. It was two months ago that every
militia, patriot, constitutionalist -- anyone that had a
fundamentalist view in this country, or just a constitutional,
legal view in this country, were "radical", "right wing",
"paranoid", para-military; they were anti-government. And yet
when we have it on film, documented proof, on videotape --
nothin'.
GEOFF METCALF:
Troy, I've got to take a brief pause and do some business. But it
all goes back to the old "Metcalfism". And that is, that they
don't want to be confused with facts that already contradict
their pre-conceived opinion.
[...break...]
We are speaking with Troy Underhill about this "Fostergate" story.
The biggest question that I have, obviously, is now that the story is out, what, if any, kind of reaction we're going to get -- particularly because, right now, the Senate is going through their dog-and-pony show: "Whitewater II: The Senate Hearings". And since this is obviously so directly linked to what happened and why things might have happened, what (if anything) of this story is introduced into the Whitewater hearings is going to be most interesting.
TROY UNDERHILL:
The one thing that I've been able to see is how they keep
talkin', Mr. D'Amato keeps talkin' about "What were those
documents?" "What were the documents that were taken out of Vince
Foster's office?" Sources say that Webb Hubbell has handed over
those documents to Kenn Starr. But that doesn't make me feel any
better, Geoff, with Mr. Starr at the helm of this investigation.
We have to go back and look at Mr. Rodriguez, who was brought in
by the independent counsel to head up the Vince Foster grand jury
investigation. And he quit! Because he was bein' pressured. Last
night, Reed Irvine of Accuracy In Media was on with Ted Koppel,
tellin' Ted the same thing. 'Cuz Ted kept saying, "Well how does
all these government agencies, how do they all cover it up? I can
understand one or two, but how do they all cover it up? Is there
some kind of conspiracy? Are they conspiring?"
GEOFF METCALF:
You know, the media's lazy, for one thing. And Reed's done a real
good job of pointing that out.
You have sent these magazines to the various members. When do you expect to hear from them?
TROY UNDERHILL:
I expect to talk to our legal counsel tomorrow and see precisely
what the legal counsel for the House and the Senate are trying to
get from us. And if we can work out some kind of arrangement
where a live, nationally-televised camera is on...
GEOFF METCALF:
Now you realize, we've had complaints from people all over the
country, thus far, complaining that the Whitewater hearings are
not being covered, live and in person {6}.
TROY UNDERHILL:
Sure. That's... We're gonna see how badly they really want it. Or
is it... Some people that we have contact with, that can supply
bank numbers, believe the only reason these bank numbers -- which
are not readily available! -- that the Senate and the House
want them, is to be able to change them or cover them up.
Once a number, always a number when it comes to dealing in international financing -- when you talk about very secretive, coded bank accounts. And they can't go in and change it, unless they have the access codes. Very few people in this country, believe it or not, Geoff, have those access codes.
GEOFF METCALF:
You see, I think the greatest impediment to this thing being
revealed in its entirety is that, last couple of years, that two
billion dollars that's been swept out of accounts: those guys
know that somebody's on to them.
TROY UNDERHILL:
Yeah, but there's a paper trail. See? There's a paper trail that
cannot be denied. Computer records stay forever. You know, you
can go in and delete a computer...
GEOFF METCALF:
Yeah, but what I'm saying is, some of the people who potentially
may be linked to this thing can claim, for reasons of "national
security" or whatever, that they cannot reveal the information.
TROY UNDERHILL:
Sure they can. Sure they can. But there's a power... We have a
first amendment to our Constitution in the United States of
America which gives myself, and my publication (or should I say,
the publication I work for) the right to print what we want to
print, if we feel that it is without malice. Supreme Court
rulings have upheld this right. And now the ball's in their
corner. Let... If they think that they can discredit this story,
based on facts, and they want to do this in an open, public
forum, we can bring the people out who could probably change the
course of this country for the betterment of all of the
American people.
GEOFF METCALF:
Troy, let's talk to Steve, who's been waiting for awhile, in
Oakland. You're on KSFO with Troy Underhill and Geoff Metcalf.
Howdy.
I was just on the phone with Barbara Boxer's office [D- California, senator] in San Francisco, just not 30 minutes ago. And I wanted to alert them to the fact that this newscast was going on the air. And I got a very distasteful reaction from the staff member that I spoke with.
GEOFF METCALF:
[laughs]
And it seems to me that that information's been all over the Internet!
TROY UNDERHILL:
Sure it has.
TROY UNDERHILL:
One significant thing that you need to do (and a lot of people
don't realize this): I have three friends who are
representatives, U.S. House of Representatives members right now:
you're not going to get a response via a local office. You need
to call Washington, D.C. And they may not do anything. But the
message is gonna get to them.
What they do, when you call a local office, is, they take a brief comment from everyone, throughout the day. At the end of the week there'll be, like, eight comments about "so-and-so". They'll fax it to D.C., and that's all there is.
GEOFF METCALF:
Here's a classic story [unclear] a couple days ago. It happened
during the GATT [Global Agreement on Tariffs and Trade] debate.
Some people contacted Senator Feinstein's office, and were
complaining about the GATT vote. And she said (the staffer said),
"Well public opinion is strongly in favor of this!" And the
caller said, "Well, wait a minute. How many calls have you had,
complaining?" And she said, "Well that's what I don't understand!
All the calls we're getting are opposite of what public opinion
is!"
<shouts> HELLO?!
TROY UNDERHILL:
Right before the vote, the American people, 72 percent, didn't
want it!
GEOFF METCALF:
Troy, I'm gonna have to roll. I thank you kindly for joining us.
I thank you for the opportunity to have broken this, here on
KSFO.
Again. People who want to subscribe to Media Bypass, can't find it in the store somewhere, you can just call 1-800-4BYPASS.
Troy, thank you very kindly.
TROY UNDERHILL:
Thanks, Geoff.
GEOFF METCALF:
I look forward to talking to you again soon. Take care.
--------------------------<< Notes >>---------------------------- {1} "And the cover up is immense." Anticipating the usual, "How could there be a cover up, it would have to be immense" type of rejoinder -- i.e., in other words, to say that there is an immense cover up means that you are "crazy":
How could the cover up be so immense? That's easy. All that's needed is for people to look the other way. Anyone who has worked in a corporation knows that, to get ahead, you've got to not notice certain things.
How can people walk down the street and not see the bums passed out on the sidewalk? The answer is that, to function, they learn not to see certain things.
Do you want to get ahead? Do you want to "succeed"? The price you must pay is to close your eyes when necessary.
{2} "Mr. Fiske had prior involvement with BCCI..." BCCI, Bank of Credit and Commerce International. Left implied (but unmentioned) is that, allegedly, Hillary Clinton, Webb Hubbell, and Vince Foster -- and therefore the Rose Law Firm -- also had "prior involvement" with BCCI. Sherman Skolnick says that, among others, the Rose Law Firm helped allow the rogue bank into the U.S. So what Underhill is saying is that Fiske was not really an independent investigator into Foster's mysterious death. If Fiske's "investigation" were to, for example, lead to BCCI, then Fiske might prefer not to probe in that direction.
{3} Translation: the lower court judge ruled against the government in the case, but his ruling was overturned on appeal. The lower court judge, as punishment for daring to rule as he did, was not reconfirmed; i.e., he is no longer a federal judge.
{4} "...and Vince Foster's name jumped up..." Yes, but was it just a coincidence that Foster's name "jumped up" while CIA was monitoring transactions, or did Mossad or someone else purposefully make Foster's name come up at the critical time?
{5} "There has been many deaths over this." See, for example, the article by Nick Guarino of The Wall Street Underground, beginning in CN 3.55, which went out in January of this year.
{6} "...complaining that the Whitewater hearings are not being covered, live and in person." Recall the summer of 1973, when afternoon soap operas were pre-empted for live coverage of the Watergate hearings. Now, your best bet seems to be PBS's McNeil- Lehrer, or wait until the weekend and watch non-stop coverage of the past week's hearings -- if you have C-Span.
Coming to you from Illinois -- "The Land of Skolnick"