INTERVIEW WITH SHERMAN SKOLNICK -- JULY 4, 1995 I spoke by phone with Sherman Skolnick on the morning of July 4, 1995. The following is what he said. Note that I neither necessarily agree nor disagree with either all or parts of the following. Persons mentioned in the interview are invited to send their rebuttals, of reasonable length, to bigxc@prairienet.org for probable distribution.
-- Brian Francis Redman, Editor-in-Chief
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SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
All right, this is being taped at a little after 10 o'clock
Chicago time, on the morning of July 4th -- a holiday, usually --
'95.
I got a call this morning from Israeli Radio. They informed me that a story about "Conspiracy Nation" and me is on the front page, today, of the Washington Post, regarding the possibility that Israel was blackmailing [Vince] Foster, which led to his death. {1}. The reporter for Israeli Radio (I guess that's their national radio)... [Other phone rings] Hold on a second, the other phone's ringin'. [...pause...]
CONSPIRACY NATION:
Okay, you got a call from somebody from Israel or somethin'?
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
Israeli Radio. A Mr. Aryeh Golan. (I gather that that's their
national radio network.)
He says, "Do you realize, Mr. Skolnick, that what you contend is gonna cause the top officials of Mossad to be murdered?"
And I says, "Well, let me explain the details." (And I'm gonna explain 'em here.)
On, prior to Monday, June 26th, '95, I came into possession of a secret report, purportedly from an agency so secret, few people even know they exist: DISC -- Defense Industrial Security Command and their subsidiaries. They guard plutonium plants, and they see to it that the nuclear secrets are not taken. And they're prepared to be very severe with anyone that interferes with them. They feel, sometime, if necessary, if you bother them, to kill you and plant your dead body by the gates of their plutonium plant and claim that you were climbing over the fence. (Although in my case, if they tried anything against me, it wouldn't wash. Because I'm disabled. I don't do any fence climbing.)
CONSPIRACY NATION:
Hah! Yeah.
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
But anyway. I told this to Mr. Golan, who's with Israel Radio. I
told him that I abstracted the report (which is some 50 pages),
that a watered-down version, with some similarity to this report,
was put together by James R. Norman of Forbes magazine.
CONSPIRACY NATION:
Okay. You know, I found something related to that, that I put in
the mail to you, yesterday.
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
By Mr. Grabbe. I have the 3 parts.
CONSPIRACY NATION:
Okay.
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
Mr. Grabbe, a journalist of some sort (to divert myself for a
moment), contends that Jim Norman's story was squelched because
the publisher emeritus (in other words, the sort of semi-retired
[unclear] but still there) is Caspar Weinberger, who's involved
with the Pollard case and therefore has got a conflict of
interest.
But anyway, Norman's story, which he couldn't get published, called "Fostergate" (I have a copy, too)... But that's a very, a much watered-down version of the secret, government report that I have.
Now I typed up the story, and faxed it, to a secure fax number for Spotlight. And I was told to submit it to the attention of Willis Carto, the owner, and Tom Valentine, who runs a subsidiary of theirs called "Radio Free America".
And on Wednesday, the 28th, I received a message on my answering machine. Valentine says, "We're gonna run it. Everything is fine." On Thursday, when they were supposed to go to press, in the afternoon, is when my house was terrorized. And the Superintendent of Police told his assistant to tell me that they don't have the time or manpower to protect me.
CONSPIRACY NATION:
Okay, that was from our interview of June 30th.
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
Yeah.
Today, the Michigan Militia wants to protect my house. But I'm one of the few white men in a mostly all-black neighborhood. And although they're not supposed to be bigots, some may look at it that way and it may cause me more trouble than they think, to have the Michigan Militia to surround my house.
All right. Now. Then, on Saturday morning, I was on a conference call with Willis Carto, who lives in San Diego, and Tom Valentine, who lives in Florida. And they told me that everything is fine. The next weekly edition of Spotlight will run the story, because they have obtained independent confirmation, from those that know about such things, that evidently the one that wrote the story has the secret report, knows what he's talkin' about, and that the information is, fits other known facts and is independently confirmed.
Then I, yesterday, I found out that another, smaller magazine, evidently -- Media Bypass, owned by Treetop Communications of Evansville, Indiana -- was going to press with a monthly edition magazine that has a story by me about the runaway grand jury, and that they evidently obtained a copy of Jim Norman's (editor of Forbes), his story, "Fostergate", which Forbes would not run.
And, I was told at midnight last night, and repeated again to me this morning from one of those who is an important personage with that communications company, that an apparent, national security injunction is being used to stop Media Bypass (that's their magazine) from going to press. In other words, they're gonna try to stop it at the printing house.
CONSPIRACY NATION:
Okay, and they're trying to stop the story about the runaway
grand jury, or some other story?
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
No. I think that... Spotlight, in their last edition, already
had a centerfold: two entire pages of my story about the runaway
grand jury. So that's already been published. I think the
story...
CONSPIRACY NATION:
Are you sure!? 'Cuz I don't remember seein' that.
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
Well it didn't come out yet! It's published on Thursday, and it
doesn't come out, it doesn't arrive in the mail until the
following Thursday, to subscribers.
CONSPIRACY NATION:
Oh. Okay.
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
All right. So most people get it on July 6th.
But the story that Media Bypass has inserted into the magazine at the last minute, which is Jim Norman's suppressed story, "Fostergate", is what they jammed into the magazine, to be printed. And they are, reportedly -- I talked to the "horse's mouth", so if the "horse's mouth" is wrong, I'm... I have no direct, personal knowledge.
But somebody very much with that magazine and the communications company (Treetop Communications, their parent company) says, just told me, a few minutes ago, that an injunction is in the works, that they may try to get the thing printed before the injunction grabs them, er... stops their printing house, their printer, in other words, from going with it. And they believe it to be a national security injunction.
CONSPIRACY NATION:
And that would be Media Bypass that they're tryin' to stop, to
get from printin' the story.
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
And their parent company, Treetop Communications.
All right, now. Getting back to what happened with me. I called Tom Valentine Monday night, July 3rd. And he says, "We are not gonna publish it. The report might be a 'ringer'."
I says, "Well, it's kind of odd. I thought it was already confirmed." That is, that my story abstracted the report and is correct.
Then, I'm told that Spotlight is in bad financial trouble and needs an infusion of a million dollars. Now the way I interpret that is -- this is my interpretation, now, of the conversation! It may not be what somebody else interprets. But my interpretation is, that if they don't publish the story, they'll get the $1 million transfusion.
Now getting back to... That's Spotlight.
Now getting back to Media Bypass: one of their distinguished journalists were in the Evansville office, Friday. Some of their top people spoke to me on Friday, on several occasions, and said, whether they could get the story of the secret report linking Foster to Pollard. And I said, "I'm committed to Spotlight."
I then found out, over the weekend -- well, I found out yesterday -- that a military officer, a colonel, showed up in Evansville at the offices of Media Bypass, that he reportedly came from Little Rock. And according to a distinguished journalist that was in the office, either working or visiting (Karen Bixman, I believe her name is), she alleges that the colonel opened a suitcase -- it had $100,000 cash -- and began counting it. And he wants to buy stock, preferred stock, in Treetop Communications and that it apparently is part of possibly several million dollars that they want to buy in stock.
CONSPIRACY NATION:
And that's, in other words, a bribe, do you think?
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
Well. An officer, out of uniform who describes himself, and comes
in with this suitcase and lays down the suitcase and starts
counting off $100 bills and says he wants to buy, that this is
the opening shot and he wants to buy a lot more preferred
stock, and if this company has been losing money for a year
(they've only been publishing for a year, but they're losing
money)... If somebody offers 100,000 or a million dollars -- hey.
I understand that the principles of Treetop Communications may
reject it. But you don't... Well.
Then they started after me. I'm being offered a syndicated TV show, commercial. My show, now, in Chicago, is a free show, public access. It actually costs us money. We don't make anything, and we never ask for anything. Public access doesn't pay. It's not commercial.
Then, I'm offered a nightly radio show, with 8 million listeners, which may, in some way, compete with Gordon Liddy. So that's a big deal. Some of my friends might lean on me if I [don't] reject it, because it might be an effort to buy me.
I let 'em know that I'm not for sale. I haven't been, in the 37 years I've been active, from 1958 to date. (I'm just telling you what's happening!)
Now, what is this all about? I started to tell Spotlight's people that a further segment that I'm abstracting from the secret report deals with the fact that [Vince] Foster did not release the documents to Pollard on his own. He did it upon the authority of Vice-President George Bush and Secretary of Defense Caspar Weinberger.
Those that may recall the Pollard case know that Caspar Weinberger so much as said that, if there was a law authorizing the rope and the gallow, that he wanted Pollard put to the gallows.
CONSPIRACY NATION:
All right, you say that Bush authorized these documents. You mean
documents as far as missile data? Is that it?
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
Yeah! Right.
Now the problem all the way around, as I told Israeli Radio, is that my story can be interpreted either for or against Israel, in that there's a question whether Israel set up three or more coded and secret accounts in Switzerland and elsewhere in the name of Foster, to buy him or blackmail him. Or, on the other hand, whether Weinberger and Bush are blackmailing Israel. Because Israel was the broker on the October Surprise -- Barcelona, Madrid, Paris: October, 1980. You know what I'm talkin' about?
CONSPIRACY NATION:
Yeah. I understand. Yeah.
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
In other words, Israel wanted to fight Iraq by pumping up Iran.
And so Israel, reportedly, helped vice-presidential candidate
Bush, and Reagan campaign chief William Casey, and others, to
work what some call a treasonous deal to offer weapons to Iran if
they will delay the release of the hostages so as to screw Jimmy
Carter in the 1980 election. And the hostages, in fact, were
released a few minutes after Reagan raised his hand and became
inaugurated on January 19th, '81.
And Israel brokered the deal. Ari Ben-Menashe in his book, Profits of War, contends so; others contend so.
CONSPIRACY NATION:
Yeah, I know.
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
But Israel got involved in the October Surprise, okay? So there's
this relationship: Bush-Caspar Weinberger-Israel-Foster.
Foster was not an independent force. Nor was Pollard. Pollard was at the bottom of the thing.
Now there's all kinds of blackmail complications. There is a "Pollard Committee" that concerns me. They raise money, worldwide. And because of my contacts with some of them, I am concerned that they want Pollard to stay in jail while they raise money, possibly (I can't prove this, but possibly) to feather their own nest and keep Pollard in jail for the rest of his life.
'Cuz if the Pollard case was to be re-opened, as a result of this secret report and my story (which I'm writing in segments -- Spotlight got the first segment of it)... may tend to re-open the Pollard case and, insofar as the Pollard Committee is raising sums of money, they wouldn't need to raise sums of money anymore if Pollard gets released.
Do you see what I'm saying?
CONSPIRACY NATION:
Yeah. Yeah. But goin' back to...
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
Now wait a minute! That is a severe criticism of the Pollard
Committee, but that is my opinion, based on what I found out
the last couple of days.
Now, another reason that they don't want... You see, in my opinion, another reason that Spotlight did not want my story published is more than the possibility of a $1 million transfusion to them, to make up their deficit or whatever their problem may be, with them, or Radio Free America, their subsidiary. The problem is that they take a philosophical position, heavily anti-Israel. In fact, some people go one step further and say that the newspaper is anti-Jew. Well, I don't believe the last part. But I do recognize, they're heavily anti-Israel. And evidently, in reading my detailed story about a portion of the secret, government report, they evidently recognized that the report is fair and my abstracting of the report is fair. In other words, I will not slant the story to be anti-Israel, merely because the newspaper that told me to write the story is a plainly anti-Israel vehicle.
CONSPIRACY NATION:
Yeah, I would say that they're anti-Israel also, just from
readin'...
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
I don't think they're anti-Jewish. They are heavily anti-
Israel, though.
CONSPIRACY NATION:
I kind of agree with what you're sayin'.
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
They do oppose the Holocaust Museum. I fault them on that. But
there is no free press in America. I would prefer that my stories
run in the liberal press, but you know what the problem is: too
many in the smaller, liberal press -- so-called "left wing" press
-- get their money from foundations that, I have documented, have
links to CIA. So I'm between a rock and a hard place.
But the problem here is, they evidently noticed that my story is fair on the Israeli question and I will not slant it to slam Israel! You see what I mean? And that may be an additional reason why they are stopping my story.
The other reason is, they did not want to know. I started to tell Spotlight's people that other segments of my story, based on the secret report (which is upwards of 50 pages), deals with Caspar Weinberger, Secretary of Defense, and Vice-President Bush, in the '80s, more or less supervising Foster and more or less letting Foster know that it was "O.K." to release these secret documents to Pollard. And Pollard, apparently, made them available to Israel.
But in other words, the whole chain of situations.
And apparently, Foster was the "Mr. X" mentioned in hearings on the Pollard case. However, other people believe that it was an American, Jewish businessman. I don't believe it. I believe that "Mr. X" or "Mr. Y" or "Mr. Z" -- mystery people in the Pollard case, not previously identified -- included Foster, Caspar Weinberger the Secretary of Defense, and George Bush the Vice- President.
So if anyone committed treason, it was Weinberger, who was born a Jew but converted to another religion, and George Bush, who was fighting around with Israel.
CONSPIRACY NATION:
All right, goin' back to... You mentioned that the Washington
Post, today, has got a front-page story. Have you seen that
story?
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
No. It was just read to me by Israeli Radio. (I guess that's
their national radio.) I was interviewed by a Mr. Aryeh Golan. It
was part of a story by a woman named, I believe, Susan Smith --
who was not the one that interviewed me. A Mr. Serge Kovalesky,
who apparently is of Russian extraction, interviewed me a couple
of weeks ago. And I told him, "Look. There's more to this." And
he said he'd call me back. And I never got such a call, whether
directly or on my answering machine.
And this woman who's got this as a series, high up in her story about different conspiracy theories on the death of Foster -- I never talked to her, that I know of.
And, the story is incomplete and unfair, and I don't think they want to know about the Caspar Weinberger, George Bush connection to Foster to Pollard. Because it would mean that the other ones, higher up, are moreso guilty of treason than Pollard was.
CONSPIRACY NATION:
Yeah, okay.
How's... You know, you, last time we talked, you were bein' attacked and threatened. How's that goin' along?
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
Well somebody today calls me up and says, "We can send the
Michigan Militia to guard your house."
CONSPIRACY NATION:
Yeah, but I can understand that... You know what the media would
do with that?
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
First of all, I'm one of the few white people in a black
neighborhood. I get along with all types: the moderator of
our cable TV show is a black. I get along with the Arabs, I get
along with fellow Jews, I get along with Black Muslims. I've had
Arab dissidents on our TV program. We are fair. We don't slant
the thing either way. We're very fair minded.
The problem is that the media's given the impression that the Michigan Militia is bigots -- although they have blacks in the Michigan Militia. But if some of them were to take up a post outside my house, then some people wrongly perceive them as bigots, it might create problems among my neighbors.
My house is being turned into a heavily fortified address. Beyond that, I cannot comment on my security.
I told the police, who really do not... They called me the other day, and they didn't really want to hear what I had to say. And I told them that, the reason I'm in this fix and do not, have no protection is, I did a cable show, 7 or 8 months ago, contending that the Superintendent of Police of Chicago, Rodriguez, is corrupt. And we were very specific.
But the law that provides for the equal protection of the laws, which are in the 14th amendment, do not say, "Every person shall get equal protection of the laws, except Skolnick, because he criticizes the Superintendent of Police."
CONSPIRACY NATION:
Yeah, okay...
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
So in other words, I can't have the Michigan Militia surround my
house for protection. It may make things more severe.
Uh, what I know about the Pollard case, the Foster case, Caspar Weinberger and Bush, and all the blackmailing and... In a way, I'm flattered that, apparently, to stop anyone from publishing my story, somebody out there is waving around a million dollars!
And I'm likewise flattered and surprised that this Marine colonel reportedly showed up in the offices of Media Bypass Friday, at a time that they thought that they might get my story, with the opening shot of $100,000 in a suitcase, in cash! I mean... Then I find out that there's other such situations, uh... there's other attempts to buy out the situation, which are in flux. And I'd be unwise to talk about it. But it's the same thing. They're trying to buy out persons that may influence me in some way, with lucrative, money-making deals, some of 'em. And now, we understand, there may be a national security injunction against the printing company that is gonna publish, or about to publish: Media Bypass.
There's somethin' goin' on!
CONSPIRACY NATION:
Okay. Maybe switchin' subjects a little bit, but with the
upcoming hearings on Waco and on Whitewater -- do you have any
recent information on that?
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
I was on a radio show [out of] Glendale, California, Friday. This
last Friday.
CONSPIRACY NATION:
Okay, and you were piped in behind Christopher Ruddy, right?
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
Yeah! Who talked about appearing before the grand jury and
advising them how they should assist themselves and become
independent and a so-called "runaway" grand jury (which is very
patriotic).
I don't know. In other words, others tell me that I and my associates may well be subpoenaed to the grand jury, in the District of Columbia. We now know that Systematics, which is in the bank, computer software business, their lawyers wrote to me (and you put it on Internet) stating that...
CONSPIRACY NATION:
No. Hold on. You know, Sherman, I never did put that on Internet.
Because I, I just wanted to hold back on it a little bit.
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
Okay. But there was a story on Internet, the last couple of days,
that there's an across-the-board effort by Systematics lawyers to
jump on anyone that wants to say or put anything contending that
they spied for NSA.
CONSPIRACY NATION:
Yeah. And I checked the name of the lawyer...
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
Charles O. Morgan, jr. of San Francisco.
CONSPIRACY NATION:
Yeah. Same lawyer.
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
Okay, but what we found out is, that they are only (How could I
put this?)... They got a technical out: that between Systematics
and NSA, there are three "cut outs" -- companies that are
intermediaries, which appear to be NSA and CIA proprietaries.
Therefore, the higher-ups at Systematics will say, "I don't know
about any spying!! We didn't spy on any other banks." It may be
that the intermediaries did it.
One of the intermediaries is, reportedly, in Little Rock and is acting as a go-between for Household International of Chicago, which brings the matter back to some stories that I think you've already put on Internet, about the Andreuccetti affair and Household International, Household Bank, as the successors to the CIA-linked Nugan-Hand Bank of Australia. {2}.
CONSPIRACY NATION:
Yeah. A lot of that's gone out. I sent out the interview that we
did at the River Flame Restaurant. {3}.
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
Yeah, okay. So, but now there is an apparent buffer, or
intermediary, between Systematics. Which may give them an excuse
to say, "Well we're not directly involved! We don't know
about any spying! We don't do any spying!"
Or it may be that the three companies, that are NSA proprietaries, in-between them and NSA, are doin' the actual thing. You see what I'm saying?
CONSPIRACY NATION:
Yeah. I understand that. And...
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
A "cut out" is sort of a, uh -- you know what a "cut out" is. An
espionage "cut out".
CONSPIRACY NATION:
Well it's a way that funds are transferred. That, they hide the
transfer of funds, like going from, for example, the CIA to a
certain group of people that, it's a way to disguise the
transfer.
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
Yeah. Yeah. Or disguise the activity, by having somebody in-
between.
So that's what all is happening. There's things about Israel, Mossad, Foster, Caspar Weinberger and Bush. It seems to be a very deadly, serious thing. And I just got a call from a Washington correspondent that says that "all Hell may break loose" as a result of the front-page story mentioning Conspiracy Nation and Skolnick.
CONSPIRACY NATION:
I'm dyin' to go out and get that paper!
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
I'm hurrying up an updated version and another segment of my
"secret report story". And as soon as I get it done, I may also
fax it to you.
I strongly urge that you get out this interview as quickly as possible, to get the story before the public. The Washington Post thing is slanted. And this story may enlighten the public.
See, what this proves is that Internet is powerful. Here's your thing, on Internet, on the front page of the Washington Post!
CONSPIRACY NATION:
Yeah. And the thing is, goin' back to this libel thing, the
lawyers and the libel: I suspect that there's some concerted
effort to use fear of libel as a way to try to silence people.
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
Yeah. True.
The Washington Post front page proves that Internet is powerful, and that your news service is, really pulls. It really gets to them.
---------------------------<< Notes >>--------------------------- {1} I have independently corroborated that such a story, mentioning Mr. Skolnick and Conspiracy Nation, did indeed appear in the July 4, 1995 Washington Post. I have been unable to obtain a copy, locally. If some kind reader could xerox a copy of the article and send it to me, it would be much appreciated.
{2} Info on the Andreuccetti affair should be available as follows: (1) telnet prairienet.org (2) logon as "visitor" (3) go citcom (4) choose Whitewater sub-menu ("L'affaire Whitewater") (5) choose Andreuccetti Affair.
{3} When in Calumet City, Illinois, be sure to visit the River Flame Restaurant, Skolnick's "home away from home".
Coming to you from Illinois -- "The Land of Skolnick"