I am resending the entire first hour of the Larry Nichols interview, due in part to the fact that in the transition to the new mailer, many readers missed parts of the interview.

If you still remember Waco. If you still remember NAFTA. If Bill Clinton pisses you off. Then make a copy of this interview and share it with family and friends.

Larry Nichols Interview -- Hour 1

[From an interview with the former marketing director of the Arkansas Development and Finance Authority, and former associate of Bill Clinton, Larry Nichols. This interview took place on the May 5, 1994 "America's Town Forum" radio show, hosted by Tom Donahue. The show is broadcast most weekday evenings at 7 pm (cst) on shortwave frequency 5.810 mHz. (Nichols speaks via telephone with Donahue.)]

TOM DONAHUE: I want to tell our listeners about a special guest we have today; as a matter of fact, return guest: Larry Nichols. Larry Nichols appears in the video Clinton's Circle of Power, and a soon-to-be-released video, The Clinton Chronicles.

Larry, thanks so much for joining us back, on "America's Town Forum."

LARRY NICHOLS: Yes, good mornin'. I can barely hear ya.

DONAHUE: O.K. Bob, you're gonna have to give him some more input; some more volume.

Larry, can you hear us now?

NICHOLS: Uh... barely.

DONAHUE: O.K. We've made...

NICHOLS: Now! Now.

DONAHUE: Good. Good.

NICHOLS: You're there.

DONAHUE: All right, wonderful.

How are you feeling these days? Rumor had it that you were, uh, food poisoned.

NICHOLS: Um... Well, of course, my demise was greatly exaggerated.

DONAHUE: All right.

NICHOLS: I had... um, it is an interesting thing that happened. I developed a rash, much like you would get from, like, touching something you were allergic to. Except it manifested in my lungs. And I come to find out it is somethin' from a pesticide. Of course, I had nothing to do with pesticides. I don't know where I got it, but everybody sort of put 2 and 2 together since Welch, the investigator at Mena, was being poisoned and had similar symptoms, people started assuming that I had been poisoned. Uh, I find that probably not to be true. Um, you know, I don't think that's true.

DONAHUE: Was this gentleman, Mr. Welch, was he poisoned?

NICHOLS: Yessir.

DONAHUE: He was. And for what reason and by whom?

NICHOLS: He was investigating Mena back in the early '80s. And he was the main investigator and people in Mena play rough. And they did not want him to continue on with his investigation. So, I mean, I don't know exactly who poisoned him. I have to be careful what I say so that I can justify, legally, everything I say. So, I mean, I can only tell you...

+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +

[Here's what Welch himself says. The following is an excerpt from a television show called "The Conspiracy Tapes." My thanks to one of the readers of "Conspiracy Nation" for sending me a videotape of this show.]

NARRATOR: Arkansas state police officer Russell Welch tried to find out who knew what. It nearly got him fatally poisoned.

WELCH: I was sick. I was originally diagnosed as poisoned.

NARRATOR: And what was the poison that almost cost him his life?

WELCH: Military biological agent: anthrax.

+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +

DONAHUE: Right. How long ago was that? When did that occur?

NICHOLS: Uh that would have been probably, uh, '85.

DONAHUE: O.K. So it did happen back then. So that's not a recent occurrence.

O.K. Let me, for our listeners who've never heard you or missed the program when you were on with us, um, let's talk about your association with Bill Clinton back in the '80s. What is the connection. And I understand: the Arkansas Development and Finance Authority. But you knew him prior to that as well.

NICHOLS: Yessir. I've known Bill Clinton since probably the mid- 80s to late-80s. As a matter of fact, I do spot marketing projects for he and Hillary during the early '80s. As a matter of fact, I helped package their educational standards package. And it was only in 1988 that they created the job of marketing director -- it was not there before me and it's not there now -- um, for me to come into that agency. I thought, ostensibly, I was coming in to do what a marketing person does, which is market the agency. What I found out was I was there simply as "damage control" and to "put out fires."

DONAHUE: Hmm... Let's, let's talk...

NICHOLS: ...umm...

DONAHUE: O.K. I'm sorry. Go ahead.

NICHOLS: So anyway, I mean, that's the extent of my involvement there.


NICHOLS: I mean, it gets a lot worse. But that's how I ended up at the agency. And then while I was at the agency is when I discovered the wrongs that were going on there. And then that caused my problem, because I started to blow the whistle.

DONAHUE: How long did it take before you blew the whistle? And tell us about the lawsuit.

NICHOLS: Well the whistle was blown... Excuse me one second. Hold on. [Leaves the phone]

DONAHUE: O.K. We're talking... Let's do a break now, Bob. Quickly go to a break. We'll come back with our guest and we'll take calls soon. 1-800-298-8255.

[...commercial break...]

TOM DONAHUE: We're back. Tom Donahue, "America's Town Forum," patriotism in action, 1-800-298-8255.

Larry Nichols, our special guest. He worked with Bill Clinton when he was Governor. He was the marketing director of the Arkansas Development and Finance Authority [ADFA].

How long were you at this agency, and what problems did you encounter? I guess you had a moral dilemma and you resigned?

LARRY NICHOLS: I apologize for having to get off the phone. A California truck pulls up in my driveway and sets there, I get a little nervous...


NICHOLS: ...and, uh, as it turns out, they left. {1}. And I was on a talk show this morning -- I'm a little paranoid -- and the talk show received death threats, so, uh...

DONAHUE: I understand.

NICHOLS: It gets a little rough sometimes.

I was there [ADFA] from February of '88 until September of '88. It didn't take me long to get in and get out. The dilemma that I was involved in is simple: If you're standing next to someone, and they rob a 7-11, you have two choices: you either say nothing, at which point you become a part of the crime, or you tell the truth, which removes culpability. The problem I had...

DONAHUE: You're talking either an accomplice or a whistle blower.

NICHOLS: That's it.

DONAHUE: One way or the other.

NICHOLS: And it's not a good position to be in, I can assure you.

The problem I had at ADFA, you see the... when I first went there, they wouldn't include me in anything. When I'm the marketing guy, how can you not include me?

Well in about 2 months I started going to the board meetings. And I found out that people that should get loans, didn't; people that shouldn't [get loans], got 'em. And I went to the president, Lou Knepp(?), and I asked, "What's the criteria? We have a problem if people find out about this." And he said, "It's whoever Bill [Clinton] wants to get the loan."

Then I found out. The thing that startled me and scared me most, which was... (and I kind of hate to have to do these little histories, but you know, it's complicated.)

DONAHUE: Yes. Um-hmm. [affirmative]

NICHOLS: Mena airport was going strong in those days. And, uh, the Mena airport, for your listeners, is the little place in Arkansas, 5500-6000 people, and it had an airport that would land jets.

Barry Seal, who was hauling arms and supplies to the Contras during the early '80s {2}, had figured out that, goodness, he could bring his planes back and the DEA [Drug Enforcement Agency] would not touch them because they were CIA planes. So he started back hauling, from Columbia and Panama, cocaine. And he was running 100 million a month in cocaine through the little Mena airport. Well the problem at Mena was, you got that much cocaine and you've got that much money -- but you have to launder that money. Dan Lasater, Bill Clinton's best friend, who went to jail with Roger Clinton for cocaine -- not selling it, but giving it away -- had a bonding, a bonding house. And guess what? He did the bond underwriting for ADFA.

We found out 2 weeks ago from a high-ranking, ex-CIA official, a person who is authentic and he is on the record, that Dan Lasater was indeed the man that [Barry] Seal used to launder the money. For Mena. Some of that laundered money went into the Arkansas Development Finance Authority.

DONAHUE: Did you know that at the time?

NICHOLS: I didn't know it, but I found it out.

DONAHUE: Um-hmm. [understands]

NICHOLS: And uh, what they were doing, they would issue a bond and let's say give, like I told your audience before, Webster Hubbell {3}, who created ADFA -- I mean drafted it, legislated it, got it passed -- he and his father-in-law, Seth Ward, got the first loan at ADFA for $2.85 million. You can't find that he ever paid anybody back.

Other, other recipients of "loans" were Don Tyson, Tyson Industries, International Paper.

Well the problem at ADFA was you couldn't find one person that ever bought the bonds. What Lasater was doing was taking the drug money, running it through ADFA as if people were buying the bonds. That money would lead ADFA to one of the banks that they used out of state, 2 of which I think were in BCCI's [Bank of Credit and Commerce International, a.k.a. Bank of Crooks and Criminals International] network. And the other underwriter of bonds at ADFA at the time was none other than Stephens' investment firm. And the man that brought BCCI to America was Jackson Stephens.

One of the banks they used in Chicago, Guaranty, guess who owns part of it? Dan Rostenkowski. {4}.

DONAHUE: Dan Rostenkowski, yeah. Um-hmm [pensive].

NICHOLS: Now you understand the rest of the story, why when Bill Clinton first got elected he fired the federal prosecutor that was on Rostenkowski's case. You also see now why he broke precedent and went to Chicago and campaigned in a primary [for "Rosty"].

DONAHUE: But isn't it poetic justice that this Mr. Stevens {5} shows up, working in another department which ended up being Bill Clinton's worst haunt?

NICHOLS: [laughs] Yes it was. And uh, Mr. Stephanopoulos is gonna be a "sacrificial lamb" for that little exercise.

DONAHUE: Now, because of the verbal exchange and he was upset that Jay Stevens had been hired there and how could that have happened?

NICHOLS: Absolutely. Now you see, to show you how slick Clinton was, when he held his infamous press conference he said that no one in his cabinet called them. Well let me give your audience a little clue, or something they didn't know: Time magazine, as you know, wrote that Saturday, with their [news] feed, saying that, in fact, Stephanopoulos had called the RTC [Resolution Trust Corporation]. Bill Clinton knew it that night. He knew that that story was coming. Yet he stood there and lied to the American people and said they knew nothing about it. And you would think, "Gosh, what a technical blunder on his part. I mean, that was stupid."

It isn't. You see, I don't know what Time magazine's circulation is, but let's give it some millions. That does not match the hundreds of million that prime time TV brings to it.

DONAHUE: Right. Um-hmm. [understands]

NICHOLS: So some millions [read] the truth. But hundreds of millions of people heard him lie and believed it.

DONAHUE: Now Jay Stevens was a former U.S. attorney who was investigating Rostenkowski in the district there. Um, then he ended up with, um, what's the oversight organization regarding S&Ls? [Savings & Loans]


DONAHUE: Yeah. Right. So he ended up working out of that department instead. And he was the one that, for the most part, initiated the investigation into Whitewater and Madison Guaranty.

NICHOLS: Absolutely. And again, there's no connection between Jay Stevens and Jackson Stephens. Jackson Stephens is the wealthy man from Stephens investment firm out of Little Rock.

DONAHUE: Right. Um-hmm [understands]. Now what was Bill Clinton to gain, besides satisfying his corporate interests there in the state? Uh, let's talk about the direct connection that Bill Clinton... how he benefited through the Arkansas Development and Finance Authority.

NICHOLS: Well they, Bill Clinton and the power brokers, the Stephens, the "good ol' boy" political machine -- it's been around for over 100 years -- have been grooming Bill Clinton to run for President for 20 years.

The way he gained is, [for] every one of those loans, they had to make major campaign contributions. As a matter of fact, during the primary, when no other person could raise money, -- and I'm talking about Paul Tsongas, Kerry, I mean these are known entities -- Bill Clinton got $1.78 million of his campaign money from tentacles that are from ADFA. He got the balance of his money from tentacles that are the Stephens investment firm.

Now. When he entered the race as President, the day he entered, he had $10 million. And if you understand primary races, the man that wins in a primary is the person with money.

DONAHUE: He also used the same tentacles to acquire the Governorship.

NICHOLS: Absolutely. Now the problem that the American people have today, Tom, is this: When you deal with these people, you owe them. And now the American people "owe" those power brokers.

DONAHUE: We'll be right back. Larry Nichols is our special guest. Stay tuned.

[...commercial break...]

TOM DONAHUE: We're back. Tom Donahue, "America's Town Forum," patriotism in action.

Many of you have the video -- at least some of you have the video -- Clinton's Circle of Power (or actually, it should be called Clinton's Circle of Thugs) um, and quite a few of those went out this week. So look in your mailbox for those.

If you want to order Clinton's Circle of Power, we're making it available through our organization. Twenty dollars. Just write to us -- mention the video Clinton's Circle of Power -- America First, P.O. Box 720055, Dallas, Texas, 75372.

And the soon-to-be-released, The Clinton Chronicles. We'll be telling you more about that.

Larry, where did we leave off? I think we were at the point where Clinton was the beneficiary of these loans. Um, not just loans, but I guess they were campaign contributions to keep him in the governorship, as well as to run for President.

LARRY NICHOLS: Absolutely. And then people need to understand that in Arkansas, it's a small state, and if you have the money, you have the power. And it was through the money, through the power, that Bill Clinton obtained control of the state police, of the court system, of all the attorneys -- I mean, if you crossed Bill Clinton, your attorneys license was lost. If you crossed Bill Clinton and you were a doctor, you lost your doctor's license.

DONAHUE: But if you were a friend of Bill, you could be like Jocelyn Elders and murder people {6} or like his mother and be incompetent as an anesthetist.

NICHOLS: That's right. And if you were against Bill, you also faced one of the potentials of being one of the mysterious deaths that never seem to get solved.

DONAHUE: Let's talk about, um, because that's most important here, um, let's name some of the folks that have died. We do have this son of Jerry Parks, Gary Parks, on with us tomorrow.

NICHOLS: That's right. And, uh, Gary came to me about 3 or 4 months ago, scared. They were being followed by the same people that follow me. And they needed help, he and his mother. And I told him the best thing he could do to protect his family -- and I won't get into the story, so... if it messes you up tomorrow -- but the best thing that he could do would be to come out and tell his story. Because even with me, there's been a certain amount of protection by doin' that.

It's tragic what happened to his dad. All he was guilty of, all his dad died for, was simply knowing Bill Clinton and the sleaze of his operation.

Then you go to Ambrose Evans-Pritchard. I had an informant from Hot Springs, a dentist. He was gonna tell Ambrose. I had an interview set up on a Friday. The man called me, said he was scared, it was too hot, he was leaving the state. I begged him not to go. He went anyway. He told me to re-schedule for Tuesday. On Sunday, I had to call Ambrose Evans-Pritchard, with the [London] Sunday Telegraph, and tell him that... not to bother coming back because his informant was dead.

Then you've got the L.J. Davises of the world; reporters that came in here. He was investigating the Stephens and Mena and ADFA -- that connection. He left town with a knot on his head. Somebody had broken in and hit him over the head. {7}.

DONAHUE: And examined his notes. {8}. And what they were looking through was the information on this bond scam that you were...

NICHOLS: Yes sir. That's it.

Gary Lane, from Pat Robertson [CBN]. They come in. They started investigating Mena and ADFA. {9}. They get death threats. They leave town.

DONAHUE: Gary Lane with Pat Robertson's network, the Christian Broadcast Network?

NICHOLS: Yes sir.

So you see? I mean, it's pretty rough here.

DONAHUE: Now let's, for our listeners, because, um, in case they're not able to tune in tomorrow or... give 'em a "teaser," in a nice kind of way, but I think they need to hear this and they need to act on this: let's talk about Jerry Parks. And the fact is, he was a political foe. He was investigating Clinton for many years. He built up files. But then he became a security director. His company was the security detail for the Clinton- Gore campaign. How'd that happen?

NICHOLS: Well Bill Clinton has a policy that was adopted years ago: The best place to have your enemies is working for ya. So it is not uncommon that Bill Clinton would have known the file that Mr. Parks had. And to protect that file, they gave him a lucrative contract to secure the campaign headquarters and eventually the transition headquarters.

DONAHUE: So you neutralize by way of hiring, bringing them into your fold. And then you have that control. And then you may have to also find out what they have, and perhaps even "take 'em out." [i.e. assassinate them]

NICHOLS: That's right. It is my theory, and at this point it is only a theory, that Mr. Parks took his file, which was his last official act for the Clinton campaign, he was to meet someone to receive payment, his final payment. And instead of being paid, he was assassinated. Brutally. They shot him twice then drove down the road, turned around and came back, and shot him point-blank 10 more times. {10}.

I was sitting with Gary Parks just last week, at the police department, with the investigator. The investigator said that it was a "hit," but told Gary that they probably would never solve it.

DONAHUE: We'll come right back, with our guest, and talk more about this "hit." Stay tuned.

[...commercial break...]

TOM DONAHUE: We're back. Tom Donahue, "America's Town Forum." We're talking with Larry Nichols. He worked in the Clinton... actually, ADFA, that's the Arkansas Development and Finance Authority, when Clinton was Governor.

Um, a few more things on Mr. Parks. Uh, he... Who was he working for when he was collecting information, as a private investigator in his company, against Bill Clinton?

LARRY NICHOLS: Well, they don't really know. Just yesterday, I found out from Gary [Parks] that his mother told him for the first time that he was working for a congressman. And he started getting information in '83, taking pictures of Bill Clinton with women, drugs, etc.

DONAHUE: He built up an extensive file.

NICHOLS: Yessir, he did. And that file is missing today.

DONAHUE: Now the house, now, as you said, we'll get into that more with Gary, his son, tomorrow. In both hours.

NICHOLS: Let's talk about a current one, Vince Foster.

DONAHUE: Let's do that.

NICHOLS: What did Vince Foster know that would cause him to have to die?

Number 1, he was Hillary's boyfriend. Had been for years. Now I brought that up in my 1990 lawsuit, the one that brought up Gennifer Flowers, Whitewater. All that stuff's been layin' there since 1990.

DONAHUE: And trooper Patterson said that during one of the parties that Bill [Clinton] was not at, Hillary and Vince Foster were... He saw Vince Foster, uh, touch, fondle Hillary and she was pleased with that kind of fondling and uh, gave the trooper a "thumbs up."

NICHOLS: Yeah. As a matter of fact, the troopers also stated that they had delivered Vince and Hillary to the Rose Law Firm "retreat," to spend weekends together.


NICHOLS: But Vince Foster was involved with that.

Vince Foster knew about the insider trading on the pharmaceutical stock. Vince Foster knew that we were comin' at 'em with Whitewater. Vince Foster knew I was comin' at 'em with ADFA. And all of which he was involved in.

I believe Vince was about to "snap." I think the pressure was getting... with "Travelgate," etc. The next thing, you find out he's dead.

Now let's take the death. The original 2 ambulance drivers that picked up Vince Foster's body were amazed when they put the body on the stretcher, because there was no blood. One of 'em even said he didn't even have to wash his hands.

As you know, about a month ago (I don't know the exact date, but on a Friday), the Park Police [a.k.a. the "meter maids"], with all the rumors going around -- and especially if you've seen our tape. On the tape I tell you about the inconsistencies: no powder burns on the lip, teeth or gums; no puddle of blood; no big amount of blood. Well the Park Police did a mysterious thing: they released a picture, released 2 pictures, to ABC. And only ABC.

DONAHUE: Um-hmm [understands]

NICHOLS: And it was supposed to dispel the rum... you know, the rumors.

Let me tell you what was wrong with those pictures. Not to get into great detail, but they're absolute frauds. And I can prove it simply. If you go to the picture where they are showing the gun in the hand, and there, laying there from the waist down to the crotch, you'll notice red, brown and yellow leaves all over. Folks, July the 20th, there are no leaves on the ground in Washington, D.C.

DONAHUE: Well how could they mess up so bad? I mean, I don't understand how they could be so stupid.

NICHOLS: Well, a lot of people have said, "Well watch out, they did that on purpose to trip you up." You gotta understand, Bill Clinton and his team are not perfect. And imagine this: If you're the President... Even if you're the President of the United States and you wake up one day and you say, "Golly. I'm gonna be 'framed' for this murder. So I need to call somebody and get those pictures doctored." Who would you call? You see, Bill Clinton runs a tight circle of power. A tight loop. If he picked up the phone and called you, Tom, and said, "I need you to doctor these pictures," and you said, "no," he's got a leak. Because you might go to the media and say, "This guy called me, trying to get the pictures doctored!"

DONAHUE: Right. Um-hmm [understands]

NICHOLS: So I don't think you'll find they have the absolute expertise available. And to be honest, I don't think they even thought about it. And to be even more honest, I don't think they cared. Because you will notice, other than me, who has challenged those pictures? And I've taken it to other networks. They've had it looked at. They've authenticated what I've said. But they're not gonna get in a contest with ABC.

DONAHUE: Right. Obviously, uh, the media's having to cover this in greater detail with Paula Jones coming forward with her sexual harassment suit. And when you hire Bill Bennett's brother, it shows you how the difference between Republicans and Democrats [chuckles], I mean, I say that "tongue in cheek." You have Bill Bennett's brother representing Bill Clinton in this case and perhaps in his legal wranglings over "Whitewater-gate."

NICHOLS: Yes. And you see, the Paula Jones story... I talked to her and her husband yesterday. She is filing today. It's very important that your audience understand: There's a difference between Gennifer...

DONAHUE: Was that not officially filed yesterday? Or was there...

NICHOLS: No sir. They were supposed to and they backed off. And they're filing today.

DONAHUE: Today. O.K.

NICHOLS: There's a difference between Gennifer Flowers and the other women that had affairs with him. And this lady, Tom, this lady is a lady [i.e. Paula Jones]. She's your wife, my wife, our daughters, all your audience's daughters, sisters, wives.

And you see, it's the same thing with her. She was walking down the street, essentially, and Bill Clinton said, "I want that woman." He sent Danny Ferguson, a state police officer, to solicit her, bring her to him. And she said, "No." This woman said, "No." And she's scared to death because she knows what I have been honor-bound to tell her: That Bill Clinton and his "spin doctors" are gonna do everything in their power to destroy this woman's reputation, her life. And she said, "No."

DONAHUE: Did not Paula Jones work for Clinton?

NICHOLS: She worked for the state. The actual event occurred while the AIDC, the Arkansas Industrial Development Commission, was having a convention. She was working the floor of the convention. A state trooper came down and told her that the Governor wanted to meet her, or talk with her. If you're a state employee and the Governor says, "Come on," you come on!

DONAHUE: Well absolutely.

NICHOLS: When she got to the room, she noticed the trooper stood at the door, right outside the door, but didn't come in. Bill Clinton immediately said he wanted her to have oral sex with him. She was shocked. She said, "No." And then he pulled down his britches and exposed himself. And she left. She was upset and she left.

Now. There's more evidence than I've shared with you. But again, we need to let that be resolved through the court system. And we need to let her attorneys justify, and her, her position. [CN -- To contribute to Paula Jones' legal fund, call 1-800-91 TRUTH.]

DONAHUE: How long ago was that?

NICHOLS: Well the problem is, it was like her 3-year statute of limitation runs out tomorrow. Now the big question, and the whole...

DONAHUE: We're talking early 1990s which is, you know, I mean pretty recent.

NICHOLS: Right. So the problem that they're gonna attack her with is credibility, because she waited so long to file. Let me assure you, in 19...

DONAHUE: It didn't affect Anita Hill.


DONAHUE: Anita Hill had all the time in the world.

NICHOLS: Well I know. But in 1988 I tried to get an attorney in Arkansas. You could not get one to fight Bill Clinton. And then if you'll notice, when her event occurred soon after that he was running for President. Soon after that he was President. So bless this little lady's heart, she tried, early on, to get an apology. She was also engaged at the time. She had a real mental problem with her husband-to-be finding out, and what it would do.

As soon as she finally told her husband, then it was over. He did the right thing and said, "Come on." And they sought out, and they couldn't find, a "high dollar," good attorney. They ended up taking Danny Traler(?), which I'm not "knocking" him, but he's a real estate attorney.

Now yesterday, you'll notice, they put on a show of strength, to prove to Traler and to Paula what's gonna happen to 'em. They hired the biggest name attorney they could hire, they attacked Paula, and they attacked their attorney. And it was designed to scare 'em -- which it did. Hopefully it would scare them from filing, which it did not do.

And Tom, the thing, and this is the most significant, other than the fact she said, "No.": Think about Congress now. What are they gonna do? On one hand, they're trying to roast and destroy Bob Packwood. They had nowhere near the evidence that this lady has. Now what are they gonna do? Are they gonna say, "Uh oh. Now we're after Packwood and now our 'fearless leader' is accused of the same thing, with more evidence. We roasted Anita Hill's uh, Clarence Thomas." What are they gonna do? Are they going to pursue Clinton like they pursued Packwood? Or are they gonna have to drop Packwood and say, "Well. Nothin' on him either."

You see, Congress is in a bind. And I will say one more thing.

DONAHUE: Call it "Hypocrisy-gate." We've gotta take a break. And hold that thought. We're gonna go to your calls, I promise, in just moments. 1-800-298-8255.

[...commercial break...]

TOM DONAHUE: We're back. We're talking with Larry Nichols. He has a major part, and contributor in, 2 videos: The Clinton Chronicles will be soon released. And he's in the Clinton's Circle of Power video. We're making that available for $20.

Um, I guess you could really call it Clinton's Circle of Thugs, or Clinton's Lust for Power, 'cause that's really what we have here, don't we Larry? (And I want you to pick up where you left off.)

LARRY NICHOLS: Yessir, it is. And to go back where I was. The incredible thing last week was, I got 5 calls from Wall Street, whatever you call 'em, brokerage firm people, wanting to know if the Paula Jones suit was gonna be filed. And I said, "Yes, I believe it is." They said, "Well you can't do that, basically, because the dollar versus the yen," (whatever that means), "is like at 100 and, one more scandal is going to destroy the dollar- yen whatever."

And what I had to tell 'em was, "You don't seem to understand. Paula Jones didn't do anything wrong. All of the stuff I've been doin', I haven't done anything wrong. The bombshell that's coming Sunday isn't my fault. The problem is Bill Clinton. If the market's unstable, it's him, not us."

DONAHUE: You've got these financial wheeler-dealers, uh wanting to protect our financial assets, rather than the nation's assets and what's in the best pursuit and light of justice. They're calling you and I guess threatening, or implying threats, if you don't do something about, uh stifling this woman.

NICHOLS: Yeah. I mean they didn't threaten me, but they said, you know, "You're destroying the economy."

I'm not destroying anything. He is.

DONAHUE: They wanted you to believe that if this would go forward, that it would destroy the economy, the united States, and that should supersede justice prevailing.

NICHOLS: That's right. Now the good news is, the reason Bill Clinton will be forced to resign at the end of this month, the first of next, is because, you see, it's starting to affect the Power. You see, Clinton's not the power. He's a cheap, tin man. As a matter of fact, now that the Paula Jones' story is out, you understand that he's really a sexual pervert. He's "white trash." But he's probably 5th to 7th level player. And Stephens, for example, the people that own him, are probably maybe 3 or 4 level. I don't even know who's the 1st and 2nd level! But you see, he's starting to affect their money. And they're going to explain to Bill Clinton, as this stuff proceeds, that now, his bein' President is hurting him... or hurting them. And they'll give him an explanation, that he will understand, that he needs to go ahead and resign.

DONAHUE: They'll make him an "offer he can't refuse."

NICHOLS: Absolutely.

DONAHUE: And it won't be a pretty picture if he says no.

NICHOLS: I would think with the Vince Foster death, that they can prove their point fairly clearly.

DONAHUE: Gotcha.

O.K. Let's take a couple calls here. Thanks for being so patient, callers. Let's go to Carol in Boston. Hi, Carol.

CAROL: Good morning, Tom...

DONAHUE: Hi. Go ahead.

CAROL: ...and Mr. Nichols. I can hardly hear you.

Anyway. I have a question for Mr. Nichols. I heard him on this talk show, and he talked about 2 sealed indictments that were "coming down" this week?

NICHOLS: Yes, ma'am. There are 2 sealed indictments. I did not say they were "coming down" this week.

CAROL: Oh. I'm sorry.

NICHOLS: Um, through my sources... Now this is interesting, and you need to hear the whole story. Through my sources, I understand...

DONAHUE: Let's let Carol go and listen on her radio. Go ahead, Larry.

NICHOLS: I have very good confidence in my sources. Indictments were sealed for Betsy Wright and George Stephanopoulos for obstruction of justice, perjury before a grand jury.

Now. A sealed indictment can stay sealed for years. A sealed indictment generally means that the prosecutors are trying to leverage that person into turning state's evidence against the next person up.

Robert Fiske came out, and remember, in a grand jury you're never, in that kind of a thing, you're never supposed to reveal what's going on. {11}.

The Washington Times, in a rumors column (and remember, it's a rumor at this point), in the rumors column of the Washington Times they said that there are indictments and others coming, sealed, against Stephanopoulos and Betsy Wright.

Fiske came out and said openly that there is no indictment. Now, you can't have it both ways. Either don't talk about it, or do talk about it. Don't tell people that they can't find out information, and then tell them information when it benefits Clinton.

DONAHUE: Right. At this point it's pure speculation.

NICHOLS: Well it's something when the man, the lead prosecutor, comes out on pure speculation, and on a rumor, and tries to dispel it. Now think about the magnitude of that. If the paper had said they had the documents, then he could respond.

DONAHUE: Absolutely.

NICHOLS: It's incredible what's going on.

DONAHUE: What do you think of Mr. Fiske?

NICHOLS: He's an absolute "ringer" [i.e. not what he seems]. Let me give you another example.

When Gary Lane of CBN was in town, they had stumbled into, at ADFA, they had seen a document that was very damning. No one had ever seen it before. They started pressuring 'em. The next day, in comes Fiske's people and subpoenas those documents and seals 'em from the light of day.

Just last Thursday, the Chicago Board of Trade said they found all of the trades that Hillary made.


NICHOLS: Friday mornin' at 9 o'clock, Robert Fiske seals those... files a subpoena and seals that information.

DONAHUE: He's like a paper "Pac-man," goin' around scarfing up everything that could be brought out in the public view. Uh, and God only knows what he's gonna do with it.

NICHOLS: How can he, Tom, represent the people of America when, in fact, he represented BCCI and Clark Clifford? And Whitewater is going to lead in, since it's the same cast of characters, to BCCI. And he can't prosecute former clients. He can't prosecute, he can't investigate International Paper. International Paper sold 200 some acres to Whitewater, got a loan at ADFA. He can't investigate them because he represented 'em.

DONAHUE: L.J. Davis, in his article (and we've interviewed him), "The Name of the Rose," talked in detail about BCCI and their connections and how they got started in Little Rock...

NICHOLS: That's right. So you see...

DONAHUE: ...within the confines of the united States.

NICHOLS: So ya see how we're outnumbered? I mean here's Robert Fiske, appointed by Janet Reno, who represented Clark Clifford, who got off because Clinton, literally, "gave him a walk" [pardoned him].

DONAHUE: But the excuse was, "He's an old man."

NICHOLS: Well I hope when I get to be his age I can run around and break every law in the book and not pay for it. Because I'll leave my family with a lot of money when I die!

DONAHUE: There ya go.

TOM DONAHUE: Jeff, in Dallas. Go ahead.

Ask your question, Jeff.

JEFF: Uh, yes. Mr. Nichols. Do you have in your possession the paperwork that shows that the money that came from ADFA did go into Clinton's political campaign? Can you prove that? And if you can, then how come they're not asking you [for it?] And I know they're calling you a liar, and the media's just spinnin' this out of control...

DONAHUE: O.K. Thanks, Jeff.

Do you, do you have documentation for this?

LARRY NICHOLS: As a matter of fact, I do, sir. And that's why I'm striving so hard to get a congressional hearing. Because I don't think the documents need to be put out in the media, and I can explain that.

DONAHUE: Why hasn't Fiske come after your documents?

NICHOLS: Robert Fiske better not come after my documents. Because if he tries to seal them, the next day, when he serves me a subpoena, the next day it'll be all over the media. Everything I have will be out.

DONAHUE: I see. So you'll get... So it's a "win-win." {12}. You'll get the publicity that you've been asking for all along... beyond talk radio.

NICHOLS: Well, I don't want publicity. I want the information out.

DONAHUE: None of this is to benefit your personal career endeavors, but to get this information out so we know the truth. Hopefully....

NICHOLS: Absolutely.

DONAHUE: We'll be right back with Larry Nichols, and your calls. 1-800-298-8255.

[...Commercial break...]

DONAHUE: We're back. Tom Donahue, "America's Town Forum," patriotism in action.

Back to the phones we go for Larry Nichols. Let's start off with Harold, in Flint, Michigan. Go ahead, Harold.

HAROLD: Yeah. Um, Tom. I'd like to ask your guest if [unintelligible] with the gun control bills.

DONAHUE: Say, say again?

HAROLD: I'd like to ask your guest if he thinks we'll be able to beat the sickness in the White House on the gun control issue.

DONAHUE: O.K. Thank you, Harold.

Um, it looks like our Congress is trying to disarm the American people, and they're getting very close, with the numbers today, and you should be calling your congressman to say, "Hell, no." You will not tolerate any diminution of our rights. No infringement, period. Any, any weapon can be an "assault weapon," and any weapon could be a weapon on the battlefield. {13}.

Go ahead, Larry.

NICHOLS: Well, I believe, if y'all know what I know about Bill Clinton and his agenda: One of the things that they have to do is disarm us. The next thing they have to do is "educate" our children, the way they want them educated. And I just pray that Congress -- and I have no reason to believe in 'em any more -- but I just pray that they'll stop this madness. Because when they take our "assault weapons," that's step one. What will they take next? When they get health care through -- and you heard Jay Rockefeller say, "I don't care what the American people want, we're gonna get it anyway." What happens when they get health care? They have access to yours and mine and everybody's medical files.

DONAHUE: Well if they're gonna take away "assault weapons," the weapons in general, then let's take away Bill Clinton's security team. Let's take away Secret Service. Let's take the weapons that protect our congressmen...

NICHOLS: That's right.

DONAHUE: ...Huh. Fat chance.

NICHOLS: You see, if it's O.K. once you take the "assault weapons" away, nothin' will happen to ya, then take 'em away from the security guards.

DONAHUE: That's right. Bill Clinton should volunteer and step up to the plate first. And then we'll believe he's serious about gun control and disarmament.

Let's go to Bob in Golden, Colorado. Go ahead, Bob.

BOB: Hello, Larry.

NICHOLS: How do you do, sir.

BOB: I have heard you on other broadcasts where Danny Casalero's name was mentioned and the Octopus Conspiracy which attempts to describe these upper levels of... You talk about Clinton being on the fifth level down. This Casalero story was talking about maybe the second tier up. Can you speculate or describe the operatives in that story that Casalero was developing at the time he was murdered?

NICHOLS: Whoa! Uh Bob, some of what -- it is "Bob," right? Hello?

DONAHUE: Bob's listening on his radio.

NICHOLS: O.K. I don't know how to say this. There are some people in that network that I obviously know. And I know them through knowing the contras. But as you know, Mr. Casalero's dead. As you know, he was dealing in matters that I do not deal in. Um, I think you will find, when all of this settles -- if it settles and we get a congressional hearing -- a lot of the unanswered questions about all of the tentacles, where they go, where they lead, will start coming into light.

But now let me give you the negative to that. As I've already explained, long before these people at the power positions start getting exposed, they will make the "offer" to Clinton in an attempt to squash it at that level. And likely as not, they may be, they may win at that.

DONAHUE: Larry, the next hour we're gonna talk to you about Terry Reed and John Cummings' book, Compromised: Clinton, Bush and the CIA. We touched on Mena. We need to go back to that and Dan Lasater, CIA drugs-guns connection, and how both Presidents -- the one prior, too, George Bush, and Bill Clinton -- were co- opted.

Larry Nichols has been our guest this hour. He'll be with us next hour on many of these fine stations. Stay tuned. Our talk line number is 1-800-298-8255. Clinton's Circle of Thugs, or "Clinton's Circle of Power," is available. Just write to us at America First. For $20.

--------------------------<< Notes >>---------------------------- {1} Nichols' nervousness regarding the "California truck" that pulled into his driveway and sat there originates in the large number of apparent "suicides" and violent deaths of persons who have been connected with Bill Clinton. See, for example, "The Clinton Body Count" by Linda Thompson.

{2} "...who was hauling arms and supplies to the Contras during the early '80s..." That, in itself, was illegal. Putting aside for the moment the issue of bringing back cocaine, just smuggling arms to the Contras was a violation of the Boland amendment.

{3} "...Webster Hubbell..." On April 19, 1993, the day of the "final solution" to the problem of the Branch Davidian standoff, Webster Hubbell was the highest ranking official in the FBI operations center and remained in phone contact with ground commanders throughout the siege. [Source: "The Massacre of the Branch Davidians" by the Committee for Waco Justice. PO Box 33037, Washington, DC 20033. Phones: (202) 986-1847, (202) 797- 9877.]

{4} The Arkansas-Chicago connection: Covered by Sherman Skolnick and included in a "Conspiracy for the Day -- Special Edition." Excerpts below:

A big cover-up with congressman Dan Rostenkowski of Chicago, arranged by the corrupt IRS, the Justice Department, and the White House.


The hundreds of millions of dollars per month from cocaine and such was reportedly funneled through Garfield Ridge Trust and Savings Bank of Chicago. The bank has been owned and operated by congressman Rostenkowski and his cronies, who have commented on the bank's reported criminality for some 20 years now.


{5} "...Mr. Stevens..." To my recollection, it is spelled "Stevens" and not "Stephens." I refer to Jay Stevens, an apparently real prosecutor who was investigating ADFA, etc. and was pulled off the case. The "poetic justice" that Donahue mentions is that Stevens wound up investigating Stephens.

{6} "...be like Jocelyn Elders and murder people." I'm not sure what this refers to. I am unaware that Jocelyn Elders has murdered anyone. Donahue gives no further information as to this claim.

{7} (Regarding L.J. Davis.) L.J. Davis went to Arkansas to research a subsequent New Republic cover story on Whitewater, etc. Here is what happened to him, as described in the Wall Street Journal, March 23, 1994:

He was returning to his room at Little Rock's Legacy Hotel about 6:30 after an interview on the evening of Feb. 13. The last thing he remembers is putting his key in the door, and the next thing he remembers is waking up face down on the floor, with his arm twisted under his body and a big lump on his head above his left ear. The room door was shut and locked. Nothing was missing except four "significant" pages of his notebook that included a list of his sources in Little Rock. ["Censored in Arkansas," WSJ, 3/23/94]

{8} "And examined his notes..." Not just examined his notes but ripped out four pages from his notebook. See above, note #2. What do LaRouche et al. say about this? Was conking Davis over the head and stealing his notes also part of the British plot to discredit Clinton? What say ye, Crocker?

{9} (Regarding the CBN [Christian Broadcasting Network] investigation of Mena, ADFA, etc.) See "Conspiracy for the Day -- May 4 and May 5, 1994," "The Arkansas Connection."

See also "Conspiracy for the Day -- April 21, 1994," for a glimpse of the atmosphere of terror in Arkansas. Here are excerpts from that "CfD" where an anonymous reporter discusses his impressions of Arkansas:

REPORTER: Jerry, we spent a lot of time with Larry Nichols, who's actually featured in the Clinton video. Everywhere that we went, with Larry, we were followed. It was very obvious. We'd sit down at a coffee shop, we'd have our lunch with him, and there would be a [state] trooper; a trooper would come in and sit down. We would get up. We'd leave. They would leave. And they were just wherever we were. In fact, we did a few things to check things out to see if it wasn't just a coincidence, and actually we were being followed. No doubt about it.

You know, I have filmed all over the world. I've been doing this for many, many, many years. And I tell you, I have never been in a situation that I've seen the paranoia that I've seen in Arkansas.

Now very few people would actually agree to be on camera, but we talked to many, many more who would talk with us off-camera. And the thing that I discovered with all of them was they'd always kind of speak with a hushed voice, and they'd always kind of be looking around, looking around, to see if somebody was there listening to them. There is a fear in Arkansas that I just really can't describe.

{10} (Regarding the murder of Jerry Parks.) Maybe it was another "lone nut" that for no good reason just drilled him full of holes. Either that, or there was some motive. Was it robbery? Did someone drive up beside him and shoot him twice, drive off, turn around and drive back, shoot him "point-blank" 10 times -- all this just to rob him? There seems to be just one candidate for being the most likely explanation: a political assassination.

{11} "In a grand jury... you're never supposed to reveal what's going on." Unless the case involves Commerce Secretary Ron Brown, that is. From "Conspiracy for the Day," November 17, 1993:

But evidence suggests someone, perhaps at the Justice Department, is leaking details of the Grand Jury investigation. That is a violation of federal law. In its October 11th issue, a source close to Brown detailed for Time magazine some of the testimony taken by the Federal Grand Jury. And officials at the White House reportedly told Time in a later issue that the Grand Jury investigation "is virtually complete and they are confident Brown will be pleased with the results."

BURTON [Congressman Dan Burton of Indiana]: I don't know how the White House, or Mr. Brown or anybody else would know what is going on in any Grand Jury room. And I don't understand why Mr. Ly is not being called. He should be called. The Grand Jury should get all of the information possible so they can make an informed decision on whether or not to indict Mr. Brown.

{12} "...it's a 'win-win.'" i.e., "Heads, I win. Tails, I win." He wins no matter if Fiske seals his documents or not.

{13} Regarding "assault weapons." The ban on such weapons didn't do Nicole Simpson any good. Whoever murdered her used a knife. A gun of some type might have given her a chance to defend herself however.

Brian Francis Redman bigxc@prairienet.org "The Big C"

"Justice" = "Just us" = "History is written by the assassins."