("Quid coniuratio est?")
INTERVIEW WITH SHERMAN SKOLNICK -- MARCH 27, 1995
On March 27, 1995, I interviewed Mr. Sherman Skolnick of the Citizens' Committee to Clean-up the Courts [CCCC] by telephone. The following is my transcription of that interview. Note that in this interview I neither necessarily agree nor disagree with either all or some of the statements of Mr. Skolnick.
-- Brian Francis Redman, Editor-in-chief, Conspiracy Nation
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
[...continued...]
CONSPIRACY NATION:
But see... All right, two things: they're gonna re-"discover"
you, okay? And...
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
Oh, well one of the biggest clipping files of the past is on me:
with the Tribune and the Sun-Times. I was a media hero, up
until about '71. There was loads of things published about me:
about my voting cases that I brought and won; and the state
supreme court scandal, and stuff like that.
But when I began investigating the espionage agencies' involvement with the media, I... They just "pressed a switch" and I was off!
CONSPIRACY NATION:
Okay, I... We covered that before, okay? And, again, I don't
want... I kind of want to get to some new stuff.
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
I'm "the big bad wolf". [laughs]
CONSPIRACY NATION:
[laughs]
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
They all know me; talk to any political editor, they'll start
telling you what was on our show on Monday night. They watch it,
but they never write a single word, and they publicly wouldn't
admit a single word.
And that's because of the people I criticize. I criticize people like Joel Weisman, that does a journalism show on channel 11 [PBS] on Saturday night. I've criticized some of the "anchorfaces" on the media. I've gone into the CIA connections. We did a whole show how channel 5 [NBC local affiliate] instigated the [Chicago] Bulls riots in '93. And stuff like that.
They deeply and bitterly resent that. One of our commentaries touched off a dope investigation of channel 5 when they used to be over at the Merchandise Mart as their headquarters. They went and grabbed some lowly, black technician, instead of arresting one of the vice-presidents of the network that was in the dope- trafficking.
They bitterly resent that, and they... I mean, after I'm gone, they'll finally remember that...
CONSPIRACY NATION:
Yeah, but you know why? Then, it'll be safe for them to
"discover" you. Because you'll be buried, all right? And then
they're gonna say, they're gonna say...
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
[laughs] That's a very clever statement. I commend you. If I was
a CIA, I would give you the, the gold medal with no words on it.
CONSPIRACY NATION:
Yeah! Because you'll be safe! You know? I mean, it's not safe
for them to "discover" you now. But once you're gone and
buried, then they'll "discover" you...
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
Well, the other thing that caused them the most consternation is
my campaign to bring out the stuff that I investigated about the
strange death of Harold Washington. [other phone rings] Hold on.
[...pause...]
Go ahead.
CONSPIRACY NATION:
But... And the second part...
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
Should I be concerned? That, from their standpoint, I'm
"invisible"? That they dare not mention my name, at all, in the
popular press?
Should I be concerned?
CONSPIRACY NATION:
It's just a hypothesis, and I'm just putting it in "the record"
here, so to speak.
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
While I'm still here, I'm "invisible".
CONSPIRACY NATION:
Yeah. And the thing is, that once they've got you buried, then
they're... You know what else they're gonna say? They're gonna
"discover" you, and number 2, they're gonna say, "He was wrong.
He was wrong about this." And you're not gonna be around to say,
"Oh, no. I dispute that." You know?
So this is just my theory: that they will "discover" you, after you're dead and gone. They'll "discover" you, and they'll say that you were wrong. And you're not gonna be around!
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
Well, like the Daily News (when they finally indicted federal
appeals judge Kerner, who was a former Governor of this state,
for bribery?)
CONSPIRACY NATION:
Yeah.
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
They didn't mention me, until almost the last paragraph of the
story. And they put me down.
And yet all the reporters knew that all the stories that they had been getting prior to that, about the possibility of Kerner being prosecuted for bribery? That they were getting those stories from me, off-the-record. 'Cuz I knew a lot about it.
CONSPIRACY NATION:
Yeah, you pretty much were responsible that that came to light,
from my understanding.
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
I went on a tour of colleges, speaking about it. I took all kind
of heat about it for 2 years, from '69 'til '71, 'til they
indicted him. And, for your information, I was the only one
that was banned from the trial. Both sides of the case, the
prosecutors and the defense attorneys, said, "This fellow,
Skolnick, in a wheelchair, shouldn't be allowed here. His face is
too well-known. It will prejudice the jury." So they had me
banned!
CONSPIRACY NATION:
Yeah.
Okay, I'm gonna just give ya one last question here. And...
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
I mean, are you tryin' to concern me that you want me to be
worried that the...
CONSPIRACY NATION:
No. You know why I bring that up? Because...
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
I don't mind being called a liar.
CONSPIRACY NATION:
No, I don't... Okay. As a matter of fact, let me go "on the
record": I think that you're honest, okay? I don't think you're
lying at all.
But what... See, I bring that up because, in the eventuality that that happens, you know? That's my nightmare, okay? That in five, ten, twenty years...
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
I'll appoint you as my official, um (uh, How am I gonna put
this?) -- you're gonna keep the record straight [laughs].
CONSPIRACY NATION:
Okay. But I'm just sayin' that that's just like them, to wait
until you're safely "away". And then they're gonna suddenly
"discover" you and say, "Oh, he was wrong" -- when you're not
gonna be around to challenge them, okay? That's just... I just
want that...
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
I want to tell you something: I'm not infallible, but, every
one that I've accused of bribery, in 30 years, eventually went to
jail for bribery. No one ever apologized to me. (I don't need
an apology.)
Every one in the popular media here, in '88 -- late '87 and early '88 -- called me a liar regarding the strange death of Harold Washington. Somewhere down the road, I am gonna be vindicated. But I... I'm not worried about it.
Did you hear our story the other day about that? The Harold Washington thing?
CONSPIRACY NATION:
Yeah. That went out; I put that out.
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
That story, we originally did that story in '91. And a week after
we did a television show on that subject, the FBI suddenly
planted a story in the Sun-Times that they knew there was a
plot against Harold but were too busy to look into it.
CONSPIRACY NATION:
Okay. We covered that before. What I have here, though, is one
final question, about voting. You know, say in '96, if they've
got, if it turns out "Gramm versus Clinton" -- just
hypothetically -- people might say, "Well why bother voting?" You
know, if it's a choice between...
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
I have tried to lead a boycott, an intelligent boycott, against
the voting procedure, since they don't allow "NOA" to run --
"None Of the Above".
CONSPIRACY NATION:
Yeah! Yeah.
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
Not for apathy, [but] because I got a Constitutional principle
that I happen to know a lot about. And that is -- If the number
of people eligible to vote, that actually votes, falls below 25
percent (as it almost did when Reagan got elected; it was 26
percent), then I believe the "consent of the governed" has been
withdrawn, and that the social compact has been broken.
It's a profound principle. It would take a long time for me to explain it.
But I infuriate people by urging a boycott of voting. Most people say, "Well, then the 'bad guy' will get in."
Well, what I want to show is that the government, and the central government in Washington, is being discredited. And were people to -- not because of apathy or because it's raining on election day, but because of an intelligent boycott of voting -- demonstrate that the central government in Washington has lost... Well, like they do in England. In other words, you're voting down the government.
CONSPIRACY NATION:
Okay, and that was Ralph Nader's idea, I think. Or maybe it was
your idea and he grabbed it -- one of the two. That they should
have...
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
Nader has an idea like that!?
CONSPIRACY NATION:
Yeah! He was tryin' to get this thing, where you could vote for
"None of the above", on the ballot.
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
Well, no... Yeah... Yeah, okay.
But the point is, I go one step further.
And I have run commentaries, and I've caught a lot of brickbats before election, by urging people not to vote. Why? Because America is about one of the only more civilized countries that does not allow third parties, generally. Third parties are usually -- other than Perot -- are usually called "crackpots", or they get no coverage in the press, and so on. And the only two important third party candidates in recent memory: one of them, they shot and put into a wheelchair -- George Wallace {1}. And the other one really upset them, and that was Perot.
CONSPIRACY NATION:
I got a report on that, okay? One of my readers called you (I
think, March 24th) and talked with you and wrote out his report
of this thing of Perot -- which I'm gonna be posting, all right?
[CN -- see CN 4.44] So just so that we don't cover ground twice
here.
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
You know what I think about Perot: he's an "espionage darling".
CONSPIRACY NATION:
Yeah, okay.
And there was this book called Votescam.
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
I heard about it, but I haven't read it. Right. And with the
electronic way that they count votes -- yeah, you can cheat.
And the point is, they got a set-up though, that it's only "eeny" or "meeny"; it's only either one of the establishment parties. And they switch, from time to time. They says, "Oh, you're tired of Republicans? Fine. We're gonna give you a Democrat."
But a third party candidate -- a real one -- in America is not allowed.
CONSPIRACY NATION:
All right. So you're basically sayin' that...
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
Now remember: you're talking to someone that is a vote expert. I
won... Almost all of the voting reapportionment cases in Illinois
is "Skolnick versus Board of Election Commissioners". You look in
the law books and you'll see a long list of my cases.
In other words, the congressional districts, various districts, the City Council Wards, were all re-done on the basis of me, as a voter on behalf of all the voters, suing the election officials. So I was not just any voter. And when I tell you that I urge people to boycott elections, this is not just anybody sayin' it. This is somebody that, I paid my dues; I was there and I fought all the voting cases in the '60s and into the '70s.
-------------------------<< Notes >>----------------------------- {1} Montgomery, Alabama (AP) -- Former Gov. George C. Wallace asked President Clinton to reopen the federal investigation into the assassination attempt 21 years ago that crippled Wallace and ended his presidential aspirations.
Wallace said he doesn't believe the man who shot him was acting alone.
[Excerpted from the June 29, 1993 Champaign-Urbana News- Gazette]
I encourage distribution of "Conspiracy Nation."
Coming to you from Illinois -- "The Land of Skolnick"