The following interview first appeared in the Conspiracy Nation Newsletter, June 1995 edition. I provide it now, as it offers a valuable sidelight on "Le affaire Whitewater". Also, Andreuccetti's court cases are now reaching a critical juncture; so, to help shine some light on this matter in order that justice may be done, I now release the interview.
Bear in mind that this is not my usual policy to release material from the Conspiracy Nation Newsletter so soon after initial publication. However I am making an exception in this case.
Note that I neither necessarily agree nor disagree with either all or parts of the following. Persons mentioned are invited to send their rebuttals, of reasonable length, to bigxc@prairienet.org for probable distribution.
-- Brian Francis Redman, Editor-in-Chief
(Interview of Joseph Andreuccetti, Sherman Skolnick, and "Mr. Royce" [not his real name] at the River Flame Restaurant in Calumet City, Illinois in early April of 1995. Skolnick's remarks are sometimes abbreviated and, in one instance, taken from a previous interview.)
Before beginning, a brief preface, excerpted from issue number 12 of the Steamshovel Press:
Joe Andreuccetti, a subcontractor in Wood Dale, Illinois, is
originally from Lucca, in Northern Italy. Andreuccetti's relations
include the founder of the Bank of America and the CEO of the Bank
of Lucca. Lucca was the staging area for a shipment of a European
gold horde to the U.S. It was stolen in 1943 under the direction of
General George S. Patton with the help of the Sicilian Mafia. The
purpose was prevention of another world war instigated by
Europeans, by reducing their mad money. Pro-Nazi Pope Pius XII was
receptive to the idea but he wanted some agreement that the gold
would return within an appropriate period -- 50 years.
CONSPIRACY NATION: You were born in Italy?
JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: Yes.
CONSPIRACY NATION: Could you say what year you were born?
JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: 28th of March, 1940.
CONSPIRACY NATION: And you are, according to my understanding, the heir
of the House of Savoy?
JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: One of the heirs.
CONSPIRACY NATION: My understanding is, in 1943, there's gold in a cave
in Italy. So you would have been in Italy at that time?
JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: Yes.
CONSPIRACY NATION: How did the gold get from a cave in Italy to
Addison, Illinois?
JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: Skolnick can answer that better than anybody else.
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: There was an OSS unit put in charge of the King
Emmanuel gold treasure, which also included some historic gold, going
back, allegedly, to the time of King Solomon's mines.
And the one that was part of that unit, keeps, on purpose, running
into me: Illinois appellate court judge Anthony Scariano, a former
sergeant in the O.S.S. And he was part of the unit that had the gold
in a cave! In the last twenty-some odd years, since 1973 (that's 22
years), I have interviewed most of the members of his unit. Scariano
survived five military and civil investigations in the 12 years
following '44, when the gold disappeared.
So he turns to federal district judge Hubert Will, a senior, semi-
retired judge who was walking with him -- and ran right into my
wheelchair, on purpose or otherwise -- and he turns to him and he
says, "Well. Skolnick's show referred to two people in my unit that
murdered the Major and dumped him in a lake."
And then he went on to describe him. And from that I got to
understand that Tony and others felt it was justified to murder the
Major. Because the gold in the cave... The Major was gonna do what
some would consider treason. He was gonna turn over the Italian gold
to the partisans, the Italian... uh, the communistas, the Italian
Communist Party!
CONSPIRACY NATION: But how did the gold get from Italy to Addison,
Illinois?
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: I think the gold was in the United States, somewhere,
after the war. It was moved, again, in '81.
CONSPIRACY NATION: But why Addison? Why would they put it in Addison?
JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: First of all, it's DuPage County.
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: Most secure place in the world.
JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: DuPage County is just like a country of their own,
if you start looking into it.
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: Total national security.
JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: Maybe because of Fermi Lab, and Argonne Lab.
Whatever.
CONSPIRACY NATION: Because it's near Chicago.
JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: Because it's near Chicago. Chicago, as we know, is
the heart of the United States.
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: I don't know if any of us know, exactly, how it was
transported. But he [Andreuccetti] knows about the fact that it is
under a building, Building Four.
JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: Some of the "rumors" is they got it away in
submarines, from somewhere -- La'Spezzia -- the harbor La'Spezzia in
Italy.
CONSPIRACY NATION: So they put it on submarines going out of
La'Spezzia.
JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: Right. To New York. And from New York, on trucks
to Chicago.
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: But we believe it was parked some other place in the
United States.
JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: Now I can't say, 100 percent, that that's a true
story. But it's alleged, before it got to Chicago, it went somewhere
in Arizona. Then, from Arizona, it was transported back to Chicago.
Now that is a story. It's not 100 percent credible.
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: Well, the Arizona thing involves the Marcos' gold and
the Japanese gold that the Phillippines, which was buried under a
coral reef in the Phillippines.
CONSPIRACY NATION: Have you ever met Christian Henning, jr.? JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: He is one of my former attorneys, that at a later
date, he claimed himself to be my partner -- falsely. He's the one
that initiated all my problems. Let me put it that way.
CONSPIRACY NATION: And this was somehow tied in with this 50-year pact
with the Vatican, that after 50 years the gold was to be returned.
JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: I believe so. Because my late father had a great
knowledge of this deal. How did he get a great knowledge? It's a long
story.
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: It's a long story. His father was a very important
military leader.
JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: He knew about the agreement between the Church and
the Allies.
Within 50 years, start figuring: the Europeans, the gold was
supposed to get back. And if you'll notice, that just about 50 years
afterwards, Russia fell apart, okay?
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: And they started attacking the Pope's other bank:
Banca Nazionale del Lavoro.
JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: Also, if you notice, just slightly before the 50
years, the 50 years, and after the 50 years -- that period of time --
also they've been attacking the Queen of England, in every direction
you can think of. Because the British have always been hostile toward
(on behalf of the United States), towards the unity of Europe.
It's all, in the long run, connected to the 50 years.
CONSPIRACY NATION: Somebody is only as good as their sources, okay? And
if you've got good sources, you have good information; if your
sources are not that good, your information is not that good. So how
much confidence do you have in Mr. Skolnick's sources?
JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: I've been spending 3-and-a-half years with Mr.
Skolnick. And even though Mr. Skolnick has a habit of repeating a
story over and over and over, my way of checking his stories out, and
documents, and things that are happening up to this day in other
things (my many cases in federal court), have proved Mr. Skolnick
absolutely right.
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: I've been doin' this since 1958, and as I've told you
on more than one occasion, we're not infallible, but we have never
knowingly...
CONSPIRACY NATION: Yeah, I know. I know. JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: Another thing that is very interesting is the
oddity of my involuntary bankruptcy, that began in the 20th of August
of '84 -- still pending to this day, with no success -- that prove
ulterior or, some other research is saying that the gold is not
really being used, it's not being handled by the people -- it's being
collateralized. And, of course, looking upon where the trustee holds
my signature (therefore he can do whatever he wants, without my
knowledge)... For instance, one of the things they've done, for the
last 4 or 5 years, is they hired big, private accounting firms to
file my taxes, without ever discussing with me, nor I don't even
know the people! Nor are any of the copies in my possession, which
I'm having difficulty from the IRS to obtain a copy of my own taxes!
Which I never saw, or filed.
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: Now understand: the problem about the House of Savoy
thing is as follows. (In order to understand this, you have to have a
profound understanding of historical monarchy.)
A monarch, or anybody related to him, is not subject to probate
law; it passes to the next one, the cousin or so on, without probate.
Bankruptcy, generally, does not apply. All the usual laws -- civil
laws -- do not apply to monarchy.
So they have to tie up the land and the signature. If they can do
that, they can tie up any descendant's claims that he has something
to do with the monarchy.
At the close of the Second War -- you can consult a group of books
called Statesman. What it points to is, at the close of the war there
was a rump parliament [i.e., "a group (as a parliament) carrying on
in the name of the original body after the departure or expulsion of
a large number of its members"], put together by the Allies.
[Unclear] made a separate peace with the Allies.
JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: Correct. In behalf of the new republic coming, and
the Church.
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: Yeah. And they forfeited the House of Savoy's
properties, King Emmanuel.
Emmanuel's son, for a brief time, tried to take the monarchy. But
it didn't work. But he had no property!
There's pending now, in Italy, as we talk, a new law to "un-
forfeit" the King Emmanuel property, the House of Savoy. If they do,
they've gotta have that gold back, over there.
In other words, that gold cannot be in Italy if the post-War rump
parliament law is still in effect. The House of Savoy is forfeit. So,
pending now, is a law to repeal that.
Well if the House of Savoy is restored, then someone will come
forward and says, "Hey. I'm King Emmanuel's third cousin. Bring the
gold back, it's Italian."
CONSPIRACY NATION: So the gold would come back then, and you would be
able to step forward and say, "I lay claim to some of this."
JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: Well, it's a little more complicated than that,
okay?
I have reason to believe that somewhere, '87 or '88, one of the
people that owned one of the six gold pool chairs in London, a fellow
by the name of Turullo [tape runs out].
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: In October of '92, after we taped the one-hour show
in the cable studio, before it went on the air, someone showed up
with a giant back-hoe and they began digging [at the Kingspoint
Condominiums, near Building Four.]
At a later date, Turullo, who we know... I says, "Turullo, you hear
anything about the back-hoe?" He says, "Yeah, I paid for it." "Well
you kept saying 'There's no gold there, it's all foolish.' Why'd you
have a back-hoe?" He says, "Well, we were lookin'." I says, "What'd
you find?" He says, "Peat moss." I says, "You know, we could've told
you that. You realize what's down under there? An hydraulic thing, in
with the lake? That artificial lake goes down, and you and your back-
hoe would sink into oblivion!"
There's an "Egyptian pyramid trick" there.
CONSPIRACY NATION: Okay. Do you have hopes of getting any of this gold
for yourself? Suppose that Mr. Andreuccetti prevails. Will Skolnick
be getting, say, 10 percent or something like that?
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: [laughs]
JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: Here. Let me explain something to you.
Even though my great-grandfather was of the nobility, even though
there was some kind of a relationship, on my father's grandfather,
between him and the House of Savoy, I don't really feel that I will
be one of the runners-up, claiming the crown. I strongly believe that
this fellow, Turullo, with his power of Church and gangster and
Mafia, was able to proclaim me as nominee [straw man] of that gold.
I've got reason to believe that. And for the simple reason that I
have no, any type of "muscle" power behind me of any form or shape.
And through the bankruptcy, they were able to manipulate and control
it. And confirmed me, recently, on and on and on, that I've been used
all along!
CONSPIRACY NATION: Okay. But you just want justice.
JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: I want justice, and I want what belonged to me
back.
CONSPIRACY NATION: Like the Kingspoint Condominiums.
JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: Condominiums, money, my residence, and real estate
that I own.
CONSPIRACY NATION: And you are now a U.S. citizen?
JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: I've been a citizen since 1976.
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: By the way: every time his opponents hear a rumor
that he is gonna get a passport and leave the country, they go crazy.
JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: They go nuts.
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: Absolutely bananas.
JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: They go nuts.
CONSPIRACY NATION: Okay, and why would that be?
JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: If I go back to Italy, they're probably going to
lose the power of the signature!
CONSPIRACY NATION: Yeah. All right. And so...
JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: Which they have handed to the trustee.
CONSPIRACY NATION: Okay. And this will work to your advantage? I mean,
as far as I know, from talking to Mr. Skolnick before, as things
stand now, your signature is in limbo.
JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: Correct.
CONSPIRACY NATION: So, by you getting your signature back... By going
to Italy, you get your signature back. What can you do then?
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: Well there's this repeal law pending! Repealing the
forfeiture of the King Emmanuel gold. If that passes, at the same
time that he's in Italy, then he will have some [claim]...
JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: Not only that: by the Italian law and
Constitution, no matter what citizen of what country you are, if you
were born in Italy, the minute you step foot on the soil, they do not
recognize other citizenship but their own, Italian citizenship.
CONSPIRACY NATION: And that gives you your signature back.
JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: Probably. There's some technicality that would
not...
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: Let me tell ya a thing that happened in court.
Remember: there's somewhere between 8 and 10 cases involving him.
One of the cases, in the federal court, got assigned to federal
district judge James Alesia. For 14 months he held back, the judge
held back, Joe's enemies from harming him in any way regarding his
property, his signature...
So then, I was going through some back issues of the lawyers'
newspaper, and I found out that, in '91, the same Judge Alesia got
the merit award pinned on him by the consul-general of the Republic
of Italy.
CONSPIRACY NATION: How would you view the U.S., as compared to Italy?
Do you think that the United States, at this point, is more corrupt
than Italy? Or would you say that Italy is more corrupt?
JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: Well, I came to this country when I was 16. And I
spent the following 39 years in this country. And certainly this
country is not the same country [to] which I came in 1956. One of the
things that impressed me about the Italian system today is that,
alleged, they have over 60,000 corrupted politicians and mafioso
locked up in jails, waiting for trial. I'd like to ask anybody over
here: How many do we have in this country locked up? Including the
President and his wife, as far as I'm concerned -- and as far
as many other people are concerned.
So that should, at least somewhat, answer your question.
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: It appears that, in Italy, nobody is immune. I mean,
they grab the head of Fiat, and the Agnelli's and...
JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: Any time a politician in this country that gets
attacked on any kind of scandal or whatever, the first thing he claim
is "national security"!
CONSPIRACY NATION: You were present when Lynette Redmer gave her
testimony to Mr. Skolnick, as related in Count One of some papers I
have here.
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: The Second Amended Complaint. Yeah. September 20th,
1994.
CONSPIRACY NATION: In your opinion, does Redmer "know her stuff"? Would
you say that she's 100 percent credible?
JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: No doubt in my mind.
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: She asked inside questions...
JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: No doubt in my mind.
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: ...that only Joe and I knew the answers to.
CONSPIRACY NATION: Anything more you want to say about Lynette Redmer?
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: We hope she's still in good health.
JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: Yeah.
CONSPIRACY NATION: So it was kind of courageous for her to testify.
JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: It was very courageous, for whatever was her
motive or reason, to do so. You could see that she was pushed by
something. There was some kind of a power behind her, to act that
way.
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: One of the bravest people I've ever run into in 30-
some years.
JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: Like Skolnick say: Let's hope and pray that she's
still alive.
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: I'm afraid to even call down there, to find out. I
don't want to know the answer!
CONSPIRACY NATION: Here's how I understand this case so far: you've got
Christian Henning, jr., who falsely claims to be your partner. And he
gets a $900,000 loan, using your property as collateral.
JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: No. They stole, embezzled, $900,000 from one of my
construction closings. And while he was representing, while he was
acting as my attorney, they embezzled, stole, $900,000 -- him and
some various banks -- to cure some delinquent loans -- totally
unrelated to me, direct or indirect -- which related to Henning and
other characters associated with him.
In other words, the bank made mistakes by loaning the money, it
couldn't pay it back, so they helped him to set up the loans.
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: The thing that put him into bankruptcy -- involuntary
bankruptcy -- you know the difference? In other words, he didn't
petition, they did.
JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: One of the things, one of the reasons that one
bank used, that they alleged [to have] borrowed me $320,000, [of]
which I never saw a dime -- but Henning did. And my residence and
some other real estate were collateralized.
Well, they were able to foreclose on me, on some of the property,
and take it. And I never saw a dime of those loans! So, in other
words, some of those loans were made without my knowledge!
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: In other words, he didn't see the proceeds, therefore
why is he responsible?
CONSPIRACY NATION: And do you think some of those loans were fictitious
loans? That the bank, maybe, was kind of in on this?
JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: The bank was definitely in it! Because they had to
cover up for Henning's mistakes and the banks mistakes by borrowing
him money while he was in bankruptcy.
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: Remember: this is [Archbishop Paul] Marcinkus' godson
and nephew.
CONSPIRACY NATION: Okay. And then, the way I understand it is, and then
the titles to your condos went to who? The bank first?
JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: Oh, that is a story within itself. They tried to
foreclose on account... They begin to start the foreclosure period
for the condo, January 1984. They were not able to foreclose upon it
because in May of 1985, about 6 months prior to being adjudicated
bankrupt, I filed a civil suit. Therefore, the Kingspoint
Condominiums were in dispute.
Somehow, in early '90, nine different times I was scheduled for a
jury trial. Which never took place! At the same time...
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: Now wait a minute. Make that clear, now. You've got
eight different cases pending. What he's talking about are the
companion cases, in DuPage, in the state court. He's got damage
actions pending against American Heritage, and others -- fraud cases.
And nine different times, it was set for trial, okay? And that would
have tended to open up the whole matter about the fraud, and
Household International, and all of it.
JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: So, at that particular time, the banks which I was
suing (which, they're the ones that filed my involuntary bankruptcy)
come up with a plan...
....................["Mr. Royce" joins the table.]....................
...and the trustee, and the judge [unclear] this plan which, the
people I was suing brought my case to the state court for $150,000.
Against my uh... I was objecting to it, okay?
And the peculiar thing that happened, that a couple of gangsters
bought it, through a bank auction, they bought the property, okay?
One of them wound up dead, another one wound up in jail. At the same
time, the property was never foreclosed -- 'cuz it was not part of
the estate, the bankruptcy estate. And before you know, today, when
you go to the Chicago Title and Trust, to look for those transfer of
records or whatever...
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: Land titles.
JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: ...it comes on the screen saying, on the computer
screen, "Documents accidentally erased. No longer available." Okay?
And this day, you can check that out yourself.
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: And that supports Lynette Redmer's statement that her
boss has got his property.
JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: At the same time, two trusts appear on the LaSalle
National Bank, which we can't find out who's the beneficiary because
we're already applying for it and the judge quashed the subpoena,
okay? So then, Redmer admits that her boss is the beneficiary of that
trust, and he owns the property.
CONSPIRACY NATION: Okay, and this... about $50 million or so was parked
at Resolution Trust Corporation [RTC] because they anticipated that
you were gonna win your claim?
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: No, no, no. They put up the money, and parked it with
Household International. It's federal money.
JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: Fifty-eight point four [58.4], million.
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: We're apparently the only ones that have the
documents.
CONSPIRACY NATION: You mean, RTC had this money...
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: Yeah, that's part of the merger. They facilitated the
merger of the defunct American Heritage S&L with Household
International, through their subsidiaries, Household Bank -- although
they use the word "bank", they're actually a savings & loan. Okay?
They are under the jurisdiction...
"MR. ROYCE": See, American Heritage was taken over by Land of Lincoln,
and then merged with Household.
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: Yeah. He's putting in a technical thing there. There
was an intervening step. But Household got to be the merging force
with American Heritage. There was an intermediate step: there was
Land of Lincoln Savings & Loan. It ended up with Household
International.
"MR. ROYCE": Let me explain. American Heritage was goin' out of
business. Land of Lincoln took over American Heritage. And then Land
of Lincoln merged with Household.
CONSPIRACY NATION: So where'd the $50 million come from?
JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: From the Federal Home Board [Federal Home Loan
Bank Board].
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: And a step-sister of that is the RTC.
CONSPIRACY NATION: But they had set it aside in anticipation of...
JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: In anticipation of several lawsuits pending
against American Heritage Savings & Loan.
CONSPIRACY NATION: Okay. So it wasn't set aside in anticipation of any
claims that you had.
JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: I was the strongest claim!
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: He's the only pending claim.
JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: And the only pending claim, to this day. All the
other claims were worn out.
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: The other claims were of no consequence.
JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: They were worn out! They were worn out.
CONSPIRACY NATION: Okay, but then the money was needed, to hide a bank
embezzlement down in Arkansas...
JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: Yeah. Arkansas.
CONSPIRACY NATION: And so, it disappeared to Arkansas.
JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: Correct.
And I never had my day of trial. CONSPIRACY NATION: Okay. In one of these papers I've got here, it says,
"That defendants have damaged Andreuccetti in his person and
property." I can see how they've damaged you in your property. How
have they damaged you in your person?
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: Well that's a legal term. It means "personal rights".
Civil rights, human rights...
JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: Human rights. Let me give you an instance.
As far as we're concerned, the case in Wheaton [, Illinois], in the
state court, is still pending. Between the 15th and the 20th of
November, 1993, Hillary [Clinton] was shredding paperwork. The 17th
of that month, the Sheriff of DuPage and his goons came over, at
gunpoint, with two semi-, panel trucks: movers...
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: While he was making a video production! For the show. JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: While I was making a video production, okay?
Not only I got evicted, but as you know, an eviction, all
belongings they put out front on the lawn. In this case, they seized
everything and, plus, there's some private cards with different
"Skolnick TV Products" and documents of mine, went in private cars!
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: Do you get the point? He volunteers to transport our
cable tapes to the suburbs. They took the cable tapes, and some of
the documents, away in private cars -- which are not provided for
under any eviction law of any kind.
CONSPIRACY NATION: And these are the people that came at gunpoint? JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: The DuPage Sheriff!
I recognized the main goon. I believe that he was the ex-Chief of
Police in Addison.
"MR. ROYCE": You see, normally, when they evict you out of a house --
okay? -- they empty the house out and they put all the stuff out on
the sidewalk. In this case, they took it all away in a van -- it was
pourin' rain that day -- and then later on, at the end of the day,
they came in and dumped all the stuff out on the sidewalk.
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: But they never returned the documents, and the tapes! JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: They never returned the documents pertaining to
the $58 million from the Federal Home Board [FHLBB]. Even though I am
still in possession of the copy of the documents -- you follow me?
CONSPIRACY NATION: It's a complicated case. JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: Very complicated. SHERMAN SKOLNICK: The ones that originally bought his property was a
guy who was, on other occasions, a bankruptcy trustee: Wallace
Lieberman. Instead of auctioning the property, he bought it himself,
together with Robert Belavia. Belavia lived across the road, in
Kingspoint West.
Now, what's interesting about it is, Redmer admitted that she
worked on the Belavia case and that her bosses [at IRS] were anxious
to speed up the case, to get rid of Belavia.
So Belavia went to jail, Lieberman went to the cemetery.
Lieberman's son (after we started raising Hell with the FBI) was
arrested for treason -- I mean, the thing got worse and worse and
worse!! [laughs] I mean... And, after Lieberman died, we checked his
probate -- where they got a list of property, right? The property is
gone! He listed only his house; he didn't list Kingspoint.
So Redmer was correct! The property disappeared into some "black
hole"! The land titles are gone, and her boss has got the property.
CONSPIRACY NATION: One final question: John E. Gierum was your
attorney, right?
JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: At one time, he was my bankruptcy attorney. CONSPIRACY NATION: Okay. Any comments you've got on Gierum? JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: Today I know that Gierum, first of all, is a
Jesuit. Second of all, he (I don't know if Skolnick told you) is a
senior litigator for the SBA [Small Business Administration] loans.
He's a crony of Hillary [Rodham Clinton]. We know that. And he admits
that the money [$58 million] was secretly wired to Arkansas!
SHERMAN SKOLNICK: And that the White House is trying to frame him for
it!
JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: And the White House tried to frame him for that. CONSPIRACY NATION: And, but when you say he is a Jesuit, you mean he's a priest!? Or he's connected with them? JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: Well... He [Skolnick] can explain better... SHERMAN SKOLNICK: There were three lawyers that were practicing
together: R. Barton Kalish (who was his lawyer), Forrest Ingram, and
the third guy is John E. Gierum. But the group has split up.
Gierum is now with a group of lawyers in Park Ridge who represent
international bankers. And Gierum has got his office inside there.
And it was outside that office, that he got into [Andreuccetti's]
Jeep and sat and talked about his problem, with us: that they are
framing him (this was January '94), and that he was worried that they
were gonna send him to jail. (And you heard the little interview we
did: where he said the law, and the facts, cannot protect him,
because it's a set-up.)
JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: And he also said, he was very concerned, "They're
gonna send me to jail,"...
CONSPIRACY NATION: You were a witness to that, though? JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: Oh yeah.
..."One of them is connected to my little five-year-old daughter,"
and it was all kinds of concern. I mean, he was like a man that was
ready, just about, to be shot!
CONSPIRACY NATION: And you believed his confession. JOSEPH ANDREUCCETTI: Absolutely! You can look a man in the face, [and
tell] whether he's lying or telling the truth. You can see it in the
eyes. He was a man practically in despair at the time.
Coming to you from Illinois -- "The Land of Skolnick"